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Tom77falcons has a one man mission to bash the subtropical southern USA....lol. He goes all over citydata trying to convince anyone he can the subtropical southern USA is a bad climate/region/culture....etc.
The constant hatred of anything American is kind of strange.
Why can't these deniers just admit the US South is kind of unique in the world of subtropical climates with the stupid cold it gets every few decades? I just don't get it. It is what it is. It won't change because they want it to. There is no high mountain chain, no huge body of water to protect the South from the Arctic. North America is basically a sub-arctic continent with a tiny fringe of subtropical area on the southern edges. Other than that, a very cold continent over all. Europe is far far more mild and beneficial for subtropical vegetation. I have accepted that. They just cannot accept it, and they cling to this idea of a warm period going on forever. It just is not going to happen. They will be so shocked when the real cold returns to the South and wipes everything out. It just won't last. The warm PDO is back and here to stay, and the AMO is on its way to cold again. Welcome to the 80's redux. Boy are they in for a surprise.
And Wavehunter is not telling the truth. Savannah went into single digits 1962 (9F), 1966 (9F), and in 1970 10F. 13F 1917.
I'm sure Naples, Italy has never gone near those temps, or Buenos Aires, or Sydney, or any other decent subtropical climate at that latitude and with those winter avg temps. It is just stupid cold for a place with a Jan avg temp of 60/40F to go down to 9F that often. I didn't even post the 3F from the 1980's and the other single digit temps.
The South is a second rate subtropical climate that simply cannot match the ability of other subtropical areas of the world in the growing of long term tender subtropical vegetation. This is just fact.
This isnt fact, it is opinion. Your opinion. One I havent ever heard voiced anywhere other than in this thread, in my lifetime. I dont consider the alot of the sunbelt to be subarctic? Personally I wish florida, texas,georgia,arizona and the carolinas would start promoting these states as subarctic second rate climates, maybe it would slow the massive emigration into these states from up north. lol
People keep bringing up some historical freezes, how about look at the drought records of alot of these other subtropical paradises? Alot of places could easily be considered dry , mediterranean climates
9 of the the top 10 states with the highest rainfall are in the south, 10 of the the top 13 large metros with the highest rainfall averages are in the south , why is the occasional freeze worse than prolonged drought cycles?
I will be the first to say that alot of the northern edges of the koppen classification for humid subtropical should be humid continental, but once you start getting into around maybe virginia beach and lower , its definitely an excellent representation of humid subtropical .
I think subtropical in the SE USA only starts where the average January temp is 50F or above. If it's colder than that, it's just warm temperate with continental influences
I will be the first to say that alot of the northern edges of the koppen classification for humid subtropical should be humid continental, but once you start getting into around maybe virginia beach and lower , its definitely an excellent representation of humid subtropical .
That just happens to go down into single digits F every few decades.
Tom77falcons has a one man mission to bash the subtropical southern USA....lol. He goes all over citydata trying to convince anyone he can the subtropical southern USA is a bad climate/region/culture....etc.
What is so funny is no matter how much he tries it always backfires lol......
I noticed the cities in the southern USA are winning....on nooooooooooooooo Tom LOL.
I love the look of the southeast coastal strip in winter with live oaks and moss. But I'm just realistic about what can grow there over the long term, and the susceptibility of the region to really really cold arctic outbreaks. But I never said it wasn't subtropical, just not a good version of one given the winter instability.
That high standard deviation in winter cannot be denied. Very easy to prove.
Showing pics of the Med with snow is only half the story. Just how cold did it get. Snow is not damaging on palms, or minimally, compared with single digit F temps and ice days. There is no denying that even the Gulf Coast has had and does get ice days in winter. Not saying every year by any means, but they happen every decade or so even in places like Charleston. An ice day is very bad for palms with a low temp in the low teens F or single digits. That is where the other subtropical climates of the world outperform the South. The lack of extreme negative temperature departures from average.
And Canberra is? How about Sydney can't even average 80 in its hottest month. Funny how the only people who fall for the " southeast is a continental subarctic climate" deal is people from Europe who have never spent time in any of these places yet they seem to be some sort of subtropical experts. You always forget our ultra tropical summers, and just look at random extreme cold snaps.
This isnt fact, it is opinion. Your opinion. One I havent ever heard voiced anywhere other than in this thread, in my lifetime. I dont consider the alot of the sunbelt to be subarctic? Personally I wish florida, texas,georgia,arizona and the carolinas would start promoting these states as subarctic second rate climates, maybe it would slow the massive emigration into these states from up north. lol
People keep bringing up some historical freezes, how about look at the drought records of alot of these other subtropical paradises? Alot of places could easily be considered dry , mediterranean climates
9 of the the top 10 states with the highest rainfall are in the south, 10 of the the top 13 large metros with the highest rainfall averages are in the south , why is the occasional freeze worse than prolonged drought cycles?
Agreed, tires of northerners eating up the land down here and bringing there crazy ideals with them. . Wonder why a lot of immigration down south comes from the north and a lot of them cite warmth as being a reason they left up north..... But who am I kidding I live In a subarctic climate.
This isnt fact, it is opinion. Your opinion. One I havent ever heard voiced anywhere other than in this thread, in my lifetime. I dont consider the alot of the sunbelt to be subarctic? Personally I wish florida, texas,georgia,arizona and the carolinas would start promoting these states as subarctic second rate climates, maybe it would slow the massive emigration into these states from up north. lol
People keep bringing up some historical freezes, how about look at the drought records of alot of these other subtropical paradises? Alot of places could easily be considered dry , mediterranean climates
9 of the the top 10 states with the highest rainfall are in the south, 10 of the the top 13 large metros with the highest rainfall averages are in the south , why is the occasional freeze worse than prolonged drought cycles?
I've posted plenty of pics showing all kinds of palms and things growing there. I just wish these historical freezes didn't happen cause I have also seen people lose their backyard citrus trees only as recent as 2014 in Beaufort SC. I don't like winter instability or high standard deviation of temps. Overall the region has not been having a repeat of the 80's type cold, but with cold AMO coming I think winters will get colder again. I hope that kind of cold never comes back cause queen palms are now growing all around Savannah. I would hate to see those go.
I've posted plenty of pics showing all kinds of palms and things growing there. I just wish these historical freezes didn't happen cause I have also seen people lose their backyard citrus trees only as recent as 2014 in Beaufort SC. I don't like winter instability or high standard deviation of temps. Overall the region has not been having a repeat of the 80's type cold, but with cold AMO coming I think winters will get colder again. I hope that kind of cold never comes back cause queen palms are now growing all around Savannah. I would to see those go.
I do agree with you on a lot of things tom but an 80s freeze doesn't look likely, records for Raleigh go back to the 1890s, only decade that looked like the 80s was none other than the 80s, makes me think decades like that aren't very common.
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. Wonder why a lot of immigration down south comes from the north and a lot of them cite warmth as being a reason they left up north..... But who am I kidding I live In a subarctic climate.
