Are palms required for a subtropical climate? (warm, recorded, temperatures)

[Corey the Otter]

Poll above.

Personally I don't think so because not all subtropical plants are palms plus there are palms that can grow in cool temperate oceanic climates as well.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Yes, specifically Washingtonia, which are hardy to Zone 8B, and grow in places with a coldest month mean temperature as cool as 6°C

[Lancerman]

No. A typical upper limit subtropical city is like Richmond, Caruthersville, Oklahoma City do not naturally grow palms but have the temperature averages to be. Not that palms are impossible to grow there with careful gardening. A southern magnolia should be easily grown there.

[melonside421]

Originally Posted by Lancerman

No. A typical upper limit subtropical city is like Richmond, Caruthersville, Oklahoma City do not naturally grow palms but have the temperature averages to be. Not that palms are impossible to grow there with careful gardening. A southern magnolia should be easily grown there.

Oklahoma City is nowhere near real subtropical as far as I am concerned with the record low of -17 recorded this February alone. Most of the subtropicality is mostly along the SE ridge, starting with SC and GA for one. I've also noticed that the Gulf South is a lot more continental than the SE ridge too, which makes anywhere west of GA a risky situation.

[psyche_da_mike24]

This map of global palm tree distribution shows that they do not grow in some subtropical (temperature-wise) climates like the southern tip of South Africa or southwestern Australia.

[Joe90]

It really just depends with the warmer climates that can't support palms imo - if the climate can't support them because of the annual record low, it will never really be a subtropical environment imo.

If another warm climate can't support palms longterm (10-20years), I would consider that it could still have a lessened form of a subtropical environment.


I always look at the robustness of specimen palms to get of an idea of how much of the year a palm grows - palm folk generally have an eye for a palm that looks to be making steady or fast growth throughout the year, as opposed to a palm than hangs in through winter, and slowly kicks off well into spring - the latter will look less robust and is often more prone to ailment. Also consider whether a palm is getting a bit of TLC in a optimum spot, or just doing it's own thing out in the open.

A less robust palm would indicate a climate cold enough to slow growth almost to a halt, but still warm enough for it to survive, and would be on the margins for me.

A robust palm that is part of a community of natural warmth loving plants and making growth even at the coldest time of the year, would represent a subtropical environment to me.

[elnina]

In the US mature specimens can be found as far north as Gold Beach, Oregon (42.5º N) on the West Coast, and Wilmington, North Carolina (35.2 N) on the East Coast.
Those are hardy palms.
Windmill Palms – is considered the most cold hardy palm in the world. These tough species are native to eastern China, Myanmar, and the Himalaya mountains where severe (though brief) winter conditions occur. Hardy to about -10 °F, they grow at high altitudes where temperatures are cool. It is also tolerant of low summer temperatures.
Mature specimens can also be found in the southern coast of Ireland, the southern coast of England, southwestern Canada (in the city of Vancouver and on Vancouver Island), Southern Switzerland (Ticino).
More here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hardy_palms

[Ed's Mountain]

I would say that the absence of palms argues strongly against the climate being Cfa subtropical. The presence of palms, however, means little because there are loads of climates that are not Cfa subtropical where palms are quite happy: tropical, Mediterranean, desert, oceanic, and probably a few more.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by psyche_da_mike24

This map of global palm tree distribution shows that they do not grow in some subtropical (temperature-wise) climates like the southern tip of South Africa or southwestern Australia.

Is that just native range? Because there are several places outside the green area where palms grow long term

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by Ed's Mountain

I would say that the absence of palms argues strongly against the climate being Cfa subtropical. The presence of palms, however, means little because there are loads of climates that are not Cfa subtropical where palms are quite happy: tropical, Mediterranean, desert, oceanic, and probably a few more.

Mediterranean climates are humid subtropical, but with a summer dry season