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I like HOA and actually live in one now but I have a pool common area and trails all and it costs around $500 a year. The expensive one with clubhouses and gated community and includes Cable upkeep of the yard plus they upkeep private roads only costs $1500 a year.
I can see some additional costs since longer growing season but not $500 a month for just hoa fees.
Those above costs are also standard rates in dallas. You should be able to save yard maintenance because of the larger contracts including all the homes.To me it seems like people are mismanaging those fees as labor costs are less then Florida when it comes to labor.
Agree with BVG Steve points completely. The original poster needs to understand the difference and separate a Country Club community with mandatory fees from the more common HOA's communities throughout the area. They are totally different. I think the majority of HOA's fees are in line and they have little if any effect on market pricing. I do agree that Evergreen is one of those exceptions because to me they built a family community with all the facilities and personnel of a 55 plus community and thus are paying dearly for it.
The original poster is not comparing apples to apples. This is not Dallas, this is a sub-tropical climate where things like landscaping and pool maintenance are a year round event and where our growing season is all year long. In my HOA, the grass gets cut up to 4 times a month for five months in the summer and at least once a month during the rest of the year. Trees and bushes and common areas need to be maintained constantly. Pool(s), many have more than one are also maintained and serviced all year long and most will heat their pools in the winter months. You cannot compare the two. Actually, if you are paying about $40-50.00 a month for a community pool that I assume is closed during the winter, it seems to me to be a bit excessive and it likely it being mismanaged.
All things equal, the larger the community the smaller the fee. Costs doesn't ramp up much at all when you go from 200 homes to 400 or even 1000 yet the fees can be cut in half or more. Economies of scale work in the home owner's favor when it comes to dues. All other things equal.
Communities have a variety of issues including lack of reserves, mismanagement of contracts and boards that love to spend other people's money. There are also very well run communities with low dues. So if you stumble on a community that never put away for road expense, their dues might be high or there could be outstanding assessments to cover the short falls. Same with communities that don't bother to shop their landscaping contracts or perhaps keep a staff on site for it. There are innumerable scenarios which can cause communities to have a varying amount of dues owed by the owners.
Communities with several HOA's tend to compound problems and inefficiencies.
Agree with BVG Steve points completely. The original poster needs to understand the difference and separate a Country Club community with mandatory fees from the more common HOA's communities throughout the area. They are totally different. I think the majority of HOA's fees are in line and they have little if any effect on market pricing. I do agree that Evergreen is one of those exceptions because to me they built a family community with all the facilities and personnel of a 55 plus community and thus are paying dearly for it.
The original poster is not comparing apples to apples. This is not Dallas, this is a sub-tropical climate where things like landscaping and pool maintenance are a year round event and where our growing season is all year long. In my HOA, the grass gets cut up to 4 times a month for five months in the summer and at least once a month during the rest of the year. Trees and bushes and common areas need to be maintained constantly. Pool(s), many have more than one are also maintained and serviced all year long and most will heat their pools in the winter months. You cannot compare the two. Actually, if you are paying about $40-50.00 a month for a community pool that I assume is closed during the winter, it seems to me to be a bit excessive and it likely it being mismanaged.
Dallas has a long growing season in fact many HOAs grow grass year round. If they don't plant winter rye they are still doing cuttings from march until december in many places they are out every week with leaves and other cleanup as well. Not only there is year round treatment and heavy use of of AC in clubhouses. Houston als has similar rates as dallas.
The other issue is labor is much higher in dallas. Landscapers make $20 an hour if they are experienced. Here even fast food workers make $12-15 an hour.
From what I can tell cost living is cheaper and the larger the HOA the cheaper things should be. From what I am hearing many many HOA's in Boca are poorly run and have high fees. The same communities with Bad HOA fees I am noticing also have mandatory country club fees and both are mismanaged. In certain areas it seems like throse houses take years to sell.
What is a good county club community with a good HOA I thought I seen Wellington looks like it may be a good deal. Reasonable equity and fees. Not sure what else to stick on my list.
what are you talking about? where is a reasonably priced (equity and hoa fees) country club community in Wellington? Does not exist.
you continue confusing country club communities with HOA communities. There is plenty of reasonably priced HOA communities in Wellington, but you come on here, ask a question and then challenge everyone on their answers and you post your own answer. sound like you know better than everyone else here.
Grand Isles has HOA fees of $150 per month. Includes cable TV, club house, walking paths, tennis courts and gated guarded community. Sounds to me like you are getting ripped off in Dallas and know way are landscapers making $20 an hour in Dallas and fast food workers $12-$15 per hour. not sure what you are smoking, but must be good
Also there are very few communities if any with HOA fees of $500, and if they are they are giving a heck of a lot more than you are saying they do. Also where are all the hoa communities around the country for $300 to $500 per year? at that price they call themselves an HOA and probably have a road sign with their name on it and that is about it.
do these communities have clubhouses? How much is the hurricane insurance in Dallas for the clubhouse?
anyway good luck with your ventures, you do not need responses from folks who live here, you know better and have all the answers. Sounds to me like you are betting off staying in Dallas.
I am not confusing the two of them. One reason to move to florida is to enjoy good weather and the county club is a great place to hang out. So I will be joining one or living in a community.
The Wycliff country club in Wellington is reasonably priced 48k golf equity and that is not big deal if you buy-in now the houses are priced right. The Country Club also seems to have reasonable fees for a 36 hole course. I believe it runs around $1k a month. If the Hoa is between 150-$200 a month it's not a huge deal.
This arrangement works okay for me because it keeps taxes lower. For instance I Could easily be looking at $1 million house to buy. The taxes are what I believe around $20k a year. So if I can get a similar house for $500k plus $48k for equity I am actually saving about 10k in Taxes at 2% and the equity is supposed to be 80% refunded when you sell. The membership is really attached to the house and I believe they refund 80% when you sell. The 10k you save in taxes pays for your membership. So the catch is the savings only happens if you buying a more expensive house. If you buying a $500k house the numbers simply do not work for you.
So a lot this depends on how much you are spending on a house.
Based on that logic I am not opposed to the mandatory county club since the lower purchase price keeps property taxes lower for me long term. The catch is the club will take some of your intended down payment.
The problem I see is some mandatory clubs are 20k a year in dues and the Hoa is another 6-10k in dues and there seems to be lots of special assessments. Both of those dues seem very high to me.
Not doing an HOA is okay as well because you can always choose you fees and join a non equity owned club. This gives you an easier out.
As for the high wages Dallas has a very hot economy and wages are a lot higher then florida. I feel that right now florida is a better place to invest in business because labor is cheap and laws are similar to Texas. People are making a lot money in the DFW area right now.
HOA fees are over $500 per month in Wycliffe. It is a beautiful community gone bad with demand to buy there no zero. There is tons of inventory available unlike anywhere else in Wellington where inventory is low and demand is high, wycliffe is the complete opposite. I ma certain the owners who own there now how similar logic to yours, ask them how that is working out for them now?
and the property taxes are not assessed based on what you pay for the home.
You have a lot more fees then you are listing. There is initiation fee $10,000 , renovation fee $148 per month , cart fee which is more than you cna play 18 with a cart on outside courses and the list goes on and on.
If it is such a great deal why are the homes so depressed and not moving? Because you figured out it is a good deal and nobody else did?
also the $48,000 you tie up and lose 20% on, if I invest in stock market s and p 500 fund you can make 8-10% per year. so after 10 years . even ta 7% per year after 10 years is $94,000 vs your getting back $37,000
there is a lot more to the story you are missing, but hey go for it. the hundreds of owners looking to sell and cannot find a buyer welcome you
HOA fees are over $500 per month in Wycliffe. It is a beautiful community gone bad with demand to buy there no zero. There is tons of inventory available unlike anywhere else in Wellington where inventory is low and demand is high, wycliffe is the complete opposite. I ma certain the owners who own there now how similar logic to yours, ask them how that is working out for them now?
and the property taxes are not assessed based on what you pay for the home.
You have a lot more fees then you are listing. There is initiation fee $10,000 , renovation fee $148 per month , cart fee which is more than you cna play 18 with a cart on outside courses and the list goes on and on.
If it is such a great deal why are the homes so depressed and not moving? Because you figured out it is a good deal and nobody else did?
also the $48,000 you tie up and lose 20% on, if I invest in stock market s and p 500 fund you can make 8-10% per year. so after 10 years . even ta 7% per year after 10 years is $94,000 vs your getting back $37,000
there is a lot more to the story you are missing, but hey go for it. the hundreds of owners looking to sell and cannot find a buyer welcome you
Either the numbers work or they do not. I just mentioned the above county club because it looked like a few homes in there had numbers that worked for me. this why I am saying it looks like you need to do due diligence on both the HOA and County Club. What you basically saying is there are lot mismanaged going in both places. The club is the bigger cost so where it sounds like I need to focus first.
Cart fees are not a big deal at country clubs they all have that. You either own a cart and pay a trail fee or you join the cart plan. Also some cc have low food prices and other things. The best ones give you a lot value and will save money for those who use it. I would estimate you will spend about 30k at one. Many of the ones in boca though you will spend 50k plus and that is more then you would pay at better clubs out there. not only that the golf course are not better then a. Mini. So that is a problem.
I also thought assed values can not be more then what you pay for the home. So the reduced price I would be paying is factored in.
If you looking for a million dollar home it might be not a bad deal that is why I asked the question. paying initiation fees is not the big deal to me because I most likly will be paying one to join a club anyways. I have found a nice club membership really helps out when you are doing business.
The catch.....club dues are 70K to join then 10-20K a year forever and that excludes the actual HOA fees.
Steve has some valid points but the HOA costs can easily outweigh the benefits to the point it actually hurts resale values. Evergreene in Palm Beach Gardens has an issue with this equation.
For this course it is actually looking like a sweet deal to me. If ten grand/year that's only 200k + 70k + 5k for 20 years (plus hoa). Pete Dye, Fazio, the King. For a golf nut that's close to living in paradise for the cost of a typical spec house where I come from. Lol.
Cheers.
DC
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