Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
West Virginia is Appalachian Southern, excluding the Northern and Eastern panhandle and anything north of Clarksburg.
If someone dropped me South of Charleston WV I couldn't tell you if I were actually in WV, Southwestern VA, East Kentucky, or East Tennessee. No doubt Southern culture exists heavily there.
Interesting opinion, but living just a few miles from Clarksburg I really don't see any "southern" characteristics until you go another 50 miles south of there to Sutton. South of there, I would agree that the character is Appy Southern. There is little difference between Clarksburg and Wheeling, which is where I grew up, aside from the fact that in terms of ethnic origin Clarksburg is more Italian and Wheeling more German. Neither has a southern character.
Even the notion of what is "southern" would differ greatly depending on location. Few folks in Mississippi would consider anything in West Virginia or Kentucky to be southern. They have little resemblance to the "Deep South".
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,409 posts, read 6,538,032 times
Reputation: 6253
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTMountaineer
Interesting opinion, but living just a few miles from Clarksburg I really don't see any "southern" characteristics until you go another 50 miles south of there to Sutton. South of there, I would agree that the character is Appy Southern. There is little difference between Clarksburg and Wheeling, which is where I grew up, aside from the fact that in terms of ethnic origin Clarksburg is more Italian and Wheeling more German. Neither has a southern character.
Even the notion of what is "southern" would differ greatly depending on location. Few folks in Mississippi would consider anything in West Virginia or Kentucky to be southern. They have little resemblance to the "Deep South".
There are even northerners who don't consider Kentucky or WV to be very southern. Interestingly enough.
But sometimes those opinions stretch a little bit, I think traveling opens the eyes more. It's like how some people in Georgia do not consider Louisiana southern.
Interesting opinion, but living just a few miles from Clarksburg I really don't see any "southern" characteristics until you go another 50 miles south of there to Sutton. South of there, I would agree that the character is Appy Southern. There is little difference between Clarksburg and Wheeling, which is where I grew up, aside from the fact that in terms of ethnic origin Clarksburg is more Italian and Wheeling more German. Neither has a southern character.
Even the notion of what is "southern" would differ greatly depending on location. Few folks in Mississippi would consider anything in West Virginia or Kentucky to be southern. They have little resemblance to the "Deep South".
What do you think about the Potomac Highland region? In my opinion Rt. 50 is a very useful demarcation on the eastern side of the Allegheny Front. Keyser, Fort Ashby, Berkeley Springs, are all Northern Appalachia, IMO, Romney is transitional, and once you get south of there, things start to change dramatically.
By the time you hit Moorefield and Petersburg nearly all the old houses are frame, and have big porches, rather than the brick models that dominate further north. You also have true plantation houses that ran slave based agriculture. Many of these properties still exist and look like what you would see in the Old Dominion, more than the rest of WV.
Any thoughts? I don't have a frame of reference for any of WV west of the front, and south of Morgantown, but I have been through much of the part of the state on the eastern side of the Alleghenies, so I just wonder if anyone else has noticed a difference in the North/South "dividing line" based on which side of the big mountain you are on.
What do you think about the Potomac Highland region? In my opinion Rt. 50 is a very useful demarcation on the eastern side of the Allegheny Front. Keyser, Fort Ashby, Berkeley Springs, are all Northern Appalachia, IMO, Romney is transitional, and once you get south of there, things start to change dramatically.
By the time you hit Moorefield and Petersburg nearly all the old houses are frame, and have big porches, rather than the brick models that dominate further north. You also have true plantation houses that ran slave based agriculture. Many of these properties still exist and look like what you would see in the Old Dominion, more than the rest of WV.
Any thoughts? I don't have a frame of reference for any of WV west of the front, and south of Morgantown, but I have been through much of the part of the state on the eastern side of the Alleghenies, so I just wonder if anyone else has noticed a difference in the North/South "dividing line" based on which side of the big mountain you are on.
Good point. I think in the High Alleghenies, as far down as Davis has a northern Appy feel to it while Pocahontas generally is a transition area to southern Appy. By the time you get to Cass the transition is complete. There is little difference between McHenry and Davis aside from the proximity to Deep Creek Lake. Of course you have the rules put in place in McHenry foisted on that area by a state government dominated by Baltimore which you won't find in Davis, but culturally there is no difference.
Interesting opinion, but living just a few miles from Clarksburg I really don't see any "southern" characteristics until you go another 50 miles south of there to Sutton. South of there, I would agree that the character is Appy Southern. There is little difference between Clarksburg and Wheeling, which is where I grew up, aside from the fact that in terms of ethnic origin Clarksburg is more Italian and Wheeling more German. Neither has a southern character.
Even the notion of what is "southern" would differ greatly depending on location. Few folks in Mississippi would consider anything in West Virginia or Kentucky to be southern. They have little resemblance to the "Deep South".
Yes, I have seen this opinion posted a lot on City Data forum, but when I travel through Georgia and Alabama all the way down to Gulf Shores, visiting family, many folks there think that Kentucky is Southern, just that it's upper South. Although they typically don't consider WV southern, and I speculate that is due to the fact that it split from Virginia during the Civil War. But to me WV is very similar to KY. Just like the Midwest has so many subregions, so does the South...WV, for the most part, fits nicely within the upper South. Tennessee is another solid Southern state that is very similar to KY and WV, culturally.
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,409 posts, read 6,538,032 times
Reputation: 6253
Quote:
Originally Posted by KY_Transplant
Yes, I have seen this opinion posted a lot on City Data forum, but when I travel through Georgia and Alabama all the way down to Gulf Shores, visiting family, many folks there think that Kentucky is Southern, just that it's upper South. Although they typically don't consider WV southern, and I speculate that is due to the fact that it split from Virginia during the Civil War. But to me WV is very similar to KY. Just like the Midwest has so many subregions, so does the South...WV, for the most part, fits nicely within the upper South. Tennessee is another solid Southern state that is very similar to KY and WV, culturally.
I'd agree with you for about two thirds of WV. Truthfully the northern and far eastern reaches are not southern. Country, sure, but not southern necessarily.
Most deep southerners who'd call Kentucky northern are on the gulf. The same sort that claim anything north of I-10 is Yankee.
Southeast Louisiana, where I lived, was full of that attitude. They called people from Arkansas yankees even. Some of them argued that the northern region of Louisiana itself was not southern. It was stupidly surreal.
The same kind of attitude can be found in the north as well. I've met three people from Minnesota on this very site who will argue to the death that everything south of Chicago is Dixieland; everything. They mean it, too.
I'd agree with you for about two thirds of WV. Truthfully the northern and far eastern reaches are not southern. Country, sure, but not southern necessarily.
Most deep southerners who'd call Kentucky northern are on the gulf. The same sort that claim anything north of I-10 is Yankee.
Southeast Louisiana, where I lived, was full of that attitude. They called people from Arkansas yankees even. Some of them argued that the northern region of Louisiana itself was not southern. It was stupidly surreal.
The same kind of attitude can be found in the north as well. I've met three people from Minnesota on this very site who will argue to the death that everything south of Chicago is Dixieland; everything. They mean it, too.
People are dumb.
At this very moment I'm 5 miles south of I-10 in Pensacola. Like the North or the Midwest, there are various subcultures in the real South. The Gulf Coast is really in a league of it's own in that regard. Unlike other parts of the Deep South, the Gulf Coast was never under British domination. It was purely Spanish or French in ethnic origin, and that is reflected in the attitudes here. The predominant religion, for example is Roman Catholic, not fundamentalist as you would find in the rest of the Deep South. New Orleans, Biloxi, Mobile, Pensacola are all Gulf Coast cities. In LA moving away from New Orleans (which is more Creole than Cajin) to the West it becomes Cajin country which is also largely Catholic but retains a French character. What is really considered the Deep South is north of those areas, but south of both Tennessee and Kentucky. Tennessee and KY would be considered Upper South. WV would not be in that category, not even the southern part of it, although the southern Appy part of it would have some of the characteristics as a sort of blended area.
You mentioned northern LA, and that is interesting. I would think that what they mean is it is not Gulf Coast culturally, nor is it Cajin. It is in the area of the Deep South that is approaching the Mid South ... very different than the Deep South. West Virginia is typically considered Mid Atlantic, but in truth it is actually 6 different areas, each with it's own distinctive sub culture but all of which have some sort of Appalachian influence. There is no pure West Virginian culture, although the Charleston area would have to be considered to be closest to such a classification. It is the only area without extensive influences from other states.
Good point. I think in the High Alleghenies, as far down as Davis has a northern Appy feel to it while Pocahontas generally is a transition area to southern Appy. By the time you get to Cass the transition is complete. There is little difference between McHenry and Davis aside from the proximity to Deep Creek Lake. Of course you have the rules put in place in McHenry foisted on that area by a state government dominated by Baltimore which you won't find in Davis, but culturally there is no difference.
Agreed on Cass 100%.
I would still say that the big ridges and deep S. Branch Valley of Grant, Hardy, Pendleton, and maybe even southern Hampshire Co. are culturally southern. You don't hear many people use the Allegheny Front as a cultural border, but I believe it is around where I live. The difference between Cumberland and Frostburg is about 12 miles, but one is in the ridge and valley, the other in the high Alleghenies. The dialect is different, the land use is different, the social cliques, the history is different.
For instance, I grew up in Cumberland since age 4, but my parents are from the small mining villages around Frostburg. I have that the dialect of Frostburg, and my multi-generational Cumberland friends still find my speech odd. I worked at a place where I wasn't one of the clique........until they found my grandfather was a old guard Frostburg native and beloved restaurant owner. THEN I was in the club.
I think the same applies to WV around my parts. East of the big mountain I think they have a different culture than what you find to the west, and it becomes "Southern" in speech, self-identity, and shared history further north than it does west of the front. Just my .02.
FWIW, Baltimore still has much sway in MD, especially in how the money is dolled out, but our state's government philosophy is determined more by the D.C. suburbs, especially Montgomery County.........and we tend not to like it out here. But you already seem to know that!
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,409 posts, read 6,538,032 times
Reputation: 6253
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTMountaineer
What is really considered the Deep South is north of those areas, but south of both Tennessee and Kentucky. Tennessee and KY would be considered Upper South. WV would not be in that category, not even the southern part of it, although the southern Appy part of it would have some of the characteristics as a sort of blended area.
The southern part of WV isn't upper southern to you? I am genuinely curious as to what's different about it in your eyes from the upper south. I've been there a few times myself and it always seemed to be just like Tennessee or inland Virginia to my perception.
I can draw parallels between northern/eastern WV and the interior northeast all day; and I feel I could do the same for the upper south and southern WV.
The southern part of WV isn't upper southern to you? I am genuinely curious as to what's different about it in your eyes from the upper south. I've been there a few times myself and it always seemed to be just like Tennessee or inland Virginia to my perception.
I can draw parallels between northern/eastern WV and the interior northeast all day; and I feel I could do the same for the upper south and southern WV.
I believe you can't really draw any definitive lines. We're speaking in generalities here because that is all we can do. Neighboring states also have different areas with different characteristics. The Appy influence is endemic to all of West Virginia, but it is also found in Pennsylvania as far as about 30 miles North of Pittsburgh and when you get to the mountains all across central PA. It is pervasive in Maryland once you get West of I-81, but as a previous poster pointed out there are even differences from one town to the next there. Northern WV is certainly not totally identical from one place to another in terms of underpinnings. The Upper Northern Panhandle is largely Italian and Eastern European, Wheeling is definitely mostly German, rural Marshall County is Irish and Scots Irish except for the southern part, which is German. Wetzel is also largely German in origin as is western Mon County. All of those ethnic origins left some of their traits on the populations found in those areas. Ohio is similarly divided a number of ways. There is no difference between Eastern Ohio near Wheeling and the Wheeling area, nor is there any difference between Huntington and Ironton but the 2 regions are very different than one another. All of those areas have Appy influences. So that is mixed in with everything else. Perhaps the biggest differences can be found today in Virginia, which is almost as different as night and day between the DC suburbs, Richmond, and Virginia Beach and anything West of there which is definitely southern Appy in character.
Some of these lines are far from being definitive, and there are numerous spillover areas.
Southern WV, to me, blends from southern Appy to Midwestern Appy. Past Hurricane the transition is complete. The upper parts of Kentucky are Midwestern Appy. The southern part is Upper South.
Tennessee is actually 3 different distinct areas. The Eastern part is southern Appy but it has little in common with the Deep South. During the Civil War, it actually sympathized with the Federal cause and had little slavery being mountainous. Bristol to Chattanooga falls into that category. Central TN (Nashville region) is a blended area, and Memphis is Mississippi Delta southern in character.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
!!
