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You're right - Asheville has a great deal to offer, both to residents as well as tourists. It truly is a unique city.
I was in downtown Asheville recently - the streets were packed. I wasn't expecting this.
I was there a couple months ago. The 30% dining capacity is just slaughtering restaurants. Nightclubs like the Orange Peel and bars remain closed indefinitely. Things are holding on OK, mostly, for now. What happens if this continues on for another six, nine, twelve months, with Asheville under far heavier restrictions than other places in the region? Those businesses are going to suffer and the workers in those businesses will likely be out of work.
I was there a couple months ago. The 30% dining capacity is just slaughtering restaurants. Nightclubs like the Orange Peel and bars remain closed indefinitely. Things are holding on OK, mostly, for now. What happens if this continues on for another six, nine, twelve months, with Asheville under far heavier restrictions than other places in the region? Those businesses are going to suffer and the workers in those businesses will likely be out of work.
Not sure where they were going, or what they were doing, but the streets were packed, and this was early in the morning. Could not find a place. Had to park in a garage, and there were only a few spots left. Asheville's economy and tourism appear to be booming, even with COVID.
You’re absolutely correct with money isn’t everything, but it does factor into where you get to and how fast you get there. Debt reduction, home and property ownership and compounding interest trump earning wage everyday of the week ... to an extent.
Someone making the AVL average of $8 - $12 per hour has little to no options for the above. A HH combining two $12 hr incomes gets a bit closer ... until a child or two comes into the equation, or a string of bad luck happens like a health issue or loss of job. Then it’s back to hard core survival mode on one income and rising bills and debts.
$17 per hour would be a Godsend to those in AVL, with two $17 hr incomes monumental for many. We know because we lived amongst it, with many in our circle and friends of fighting the same exact fight. We set ourselves up early from the start, but many we knew not so much.
In our mid 40’s we have practically zero debt on the properties we own, our vehicles are paid, credit cards zero’d out and are heavily invested with our kids colleges paid for. We have mid single digit DTI’s if that says anything, with $40k of available credit card availability.
This affords us a lot of elbow room, with options of living where we want (like a low COL area in TN) and being able to survive a job loss or pandemic with no loss of QOL.
Can someone trying to make ends meet in AVL on $10 hr say the same? Of course not, and should they have to hear “just go get educated” from a clueless retiree elitist when their $20k annual salary dries up? Not for a second.
Your decision to look past Asheville in a wise decision IMO. Take your current salary and enjoy your current COL advantages where you are then springboard past AVL to bigger horizons outside of Appalachia. You'll look back in a few years to a decade or two and maybe realize you had it pretty good where you started at, and Asheville was more of a release for you socially than a viable place to work and live.
This poster’s assertions are NOT in line with City Data statistics, which clearly show a below cost of living (relative to national average) and a fairly high median family income (relative to many areas in the south and especially the cities in TN he’s so fond of).
... If you’re at the bottom of the barrel like that and could double your Appalachia pay by moving to some mid-cost, mid-sized area like Des Moines or Indianapolis, you probably ought to take it. It’s going to be increasingly hard to staff jobs like help desk that are high-stress, have no room to move up, etc., when places like Aldi and Target are paying $15/hr+. I’d rather be scanning someone’s groceries or stocking shelves that dealing with irate callers on the phone.
Think I saw where the average family HH income for the AVL / BC area was $53,xxx ($24,xxx for individuals) as of late. That equate to (2) $26,500 jobs / 2080 hours worked per year = $12.74 hr (or exactly as stated).
Most likely it’s MUCH LESS than that number due to some retiree income bumping up the numbers a bit. Pretty easy to dismiss anyone who would say otherwise as the numbers speak for themselves.
Think I saw where the average family HH income for the AVL / BC area was $53,xxx ($24,xxx for individuals) as of late. That equate to (2) $26,500 jobs / 2080 hours worked per year = $12.74 hr (or exactly as stated).
Most likely it’s MUCH LESS than that number due to some retiree income bumping up the numbers a bit. Pretty easy to dismiss anyone who would say otherwise as the numbers speak for themselves.
Still much higher than the utopias in TN for which you like to advocate..
You’re absolutely correct with money isn’t everything, but it does factor into where you get to and how fast you get there. Debt reduction, home and property ownership and compounding interest trump earning wage everyday of the week ... to an extent.
Someone making the AVL average of $8 - $12 per hour has little to no options for the above. A HH combining two $12 hr incomes gets a bit closer ... until a child or two comes into the equation, or a string of bad luck happens like a health issue or loss of job. Then it’s back to hard core survival mode on one income and rising bills and debts.
$17 per hour would be a Godsend to those in AVL, with two $17 hr incomes monumental for many. We know because we lived amongst it, with many in our circle and friends of fighting the same exact fight. We set ourselves up early from the start, but many we knew not so much.
In our mid 40’s we have practically zero debt on the properties we own, our vehicles are paid, credit cards zero’d out and are heavily invested with our kids colleges paid for. We have mid single digit DTI’s if that says anything, with $40k of available credit card availability.
This affords us a lot of elbow room, with options of living where we want (like a low COL area in TN) and being able to survive a job loss or pandemic with no loss of QOL.
Can someone trying to make ends meet in AVL on $10 hr say the same? Of course not, and should they have to hear “just go get educated” from a clueless retiree elitist when their $20k annual salary dries up? Not for a second.
Your decision to look past Asheville in a wise decision IMO. Take your current salary and enjoy your current COL advantages where you are then springboard past AVL to bigger horizons outside of Appalachia. You'll look back in a few years to a decade or two and maybe realize you had it pretty good where you started at, and Asheville was more of a release for you socially than a viable place to work and live.
$8-$12/hr is bad money no matter where you are. Yes, Asheville has a wage/COL issue, but $8/hr is pitiful - unless it's a high school kid or something, someone at $8/hr is just not trying to improve.
A $70k income is livable in Asheville. Not fancy, but definitely doable.
While I get the wage complaints in Asheville, my guess is that you are over $200k HHI. You are probably in the 1% somewhere like Erwin.
$8-$12/hr is bad money no matter where you are. Yes, Asheville has a wage/COL issue, but $8/hr is pitiful - unless it's a high school kid or something, someone at $8/hr is just not trying to improve.
A $70k income is livable in Asheville. Not fancy, but definitely doable.
While I get the wage complaints in Asheville, my guess is that you are over $200k HHI. You are probably in the 1% somewhere like Erwin.
Can you please cite data showing Asheville has a wage/income and COL issue? Per City Data statistics, Asheville’s median family income is fairly high and its COL is below the national average. What we do know Is there are many low wage workers in the hospitality industry here who would have a challenging time making ends meet whether here or somewhere else. What we also know is the COL is higher here than places like Johnson City, Bristol, and Kingsport, but incomes are much lower in these cities.
$8-$12/hr is bad money no matter where you are. Yes, Asheville has a wage/COL issue, but $8/hr is pitiful - unless it's a high school kid or something, someone at $8/hr is just not trying to improve.
A $70k income is livable in Asheville. Not fancy, but definitely doable.
While I get the wage complaints in Asheville, my guess is that you are over $200k HHI. You are probably in the 1% somewhere like Erwin.
Here’s a fact about wages in the Asheville area.
The gardeners at the Biltmore Estate are some of the nicest folks you’ll ever meet. Many of them are master gardeners, horticulturalists and arborists, have degrees with a portion of them having been there from 5 to 25+ years. I know this because we know many of them personally.
The 20+ year employees barely make $15 per hour or $30k per year, with many falling below that mark. They simply work there for the environment they work in and the job they love to do.
A 20+ year dedicated and educated employee making as much as a Chic-fil-A sandwich slinger while wearing hazmat suits (at times for the chemicals they use) just to make the Biltmore look like a golden child.
So next time you get a Biltmore admission or pass to see the tulips this spring in the Walled Garden, remember there’s an entire team of under paid, under appreciated, well educated employees there making the magic happen.
All top notch people living the “Asheville dream” of low wages for the important work they’re doing for the region, but forced to accept subpar pay and appreciation just because it’s Asheville and the mountains.
Last edited by VinceTheExplorer; 02-23-2021 at 06:29 AM..
Can you please cite data showing Asheville has a wage/income and COL issue? Per City Data statistics, Asheville’s median family income is fairly high and its COL is below the national average. What we do know Is there are many low wage workers in the hospitality industry here who would have a challenging time making ends meet whether here or somewhere else. What we also know is the COL is higher here than places like Johnson City, Bristol, and Kingsport, but incomes are much lower in these cities.
I will send you a PM with a validating link, but the biggest separator is housing prices, and then taxes. Asheville's median housing price is roughly double that of JC - combine that with a state income tax and higher property tax rates, TN is far cheaper, even in spite of the wage difference.
... but the biggest separator is housing prices, and then taxes. Asheville's median housing price is roughly double that of JC - combine that with a state income tax and higher property tax rates, TN is far cheaper, even in spite of the wage difference.
Bingo! Have no idea why this is so hard to understand. But then again, with no real world knowledge of what you speak some tend to lead themselves in infinite loop conversations.
East Tennessee’s a FAR better value and just 30 to 45 minutes away from AVL (which was never important for us) - much the same as a Burnsville, a Waynesville or a Hendersonville in distance and time to the area.
No difference except for the burden on the wallet, and no economics degree needed to comprehend. Never desired to spend twice to three times the amount on living in the mountains just to live 30 minutes closer to AVL. Rather use that savings to buy our next property overseas in France, Italy or Portugal.
Last edited by VinceTheExplorer; 02-24-2021 at 08:48 PM..
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