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Can we not agree that they are ALL morons?
Or are you going to espouse these are all intelligent free thinking individuals with mature thought out rational?
We have been having this conversation for weeks. Yes, racism exists - no, it is not the HUGE problem you think.
Racism will ALWAYS exist. Some in today's world want to use it to gin up masses.
Ultimately, like most things the left tries, it will fail and even backfire on them.
Marching around like an idiot every night certainly will not win the masses to their cause.
In the end, is not that a goal? Winning the majority to your way of thinking?
We have been having this conversation for weeks. Yes, racism exists - no, it is not the HUGE problem you think.
Racism will ALWAYS exist. Some in today's world want to use it to gin up masses.
It is true indeed that racism will always exist. What we don't really know is how much of it is inevitable, and how much of it is preventable. If some (though not all) of the racism in existence today can be diminished (via education, for example), then maybe it isn't so inconvenient to make the effort.
Whether it's a "huge" problem may depend. Studies show that, in the U.S., racial minorities tend to perceive racism more than whites do. Sure, some of the perceptions of racism among minorities may be overblown or improperly attributed (an incident may have to do more with economic class or appearance [clothing, body type, etc.] rather than race per se), but it's hard to believe that all (or even a majority) of such perceptions are misconstrued.
Furthermore, racism--which itself may be hard to pinpoint precisely--is often believed to be embedded in more obvious practices, from segregation and housing choices to where people decide to sit in a restaurant or a bus. These experiences happen all the time. Many may indeed be inevitable and hardwired in our DNA (for example), but people (communities) can collectively learn over time to step away from certain practices (and even thoughts and reflexes) deemed racist. Just a small example: decades ago in the U.S., it was generally unthinkable for a white person to sit next to a black person at a counter at a restaurant (or even to sit in the same section of the restaurant), and doing so would likely summon all sorts of "what ifs" and other anxious thoughts. Now, to a large extent, many whites don't freak out about sitting next to a black person, and quite a few don't even give it much thought. Some improvement has been made, it seems. Perhaps not all racism is inevitable.
But even if all racism is inevitable, that doesn't mean that racism cannot be a "huge" problem. The inevitability of racism doesn't necessarily mean that racism is innocuous. By analogy, physical illness is inevitable, but it surely has a huge impact on people, even as science and medicine have helped minimize particularly devastating kinds of illness over the centuries. In other words, it doesn't really matter if racism is inevitable or not: it can still be a "huge" problem. (Unless, of course, a problem can only be considered "huge" if the causes of the problem can be altered [i.e., are not inevitable])
At least these protesters aren't all burning stuff down, right? I'm not a fan of this vulgar language myself, but at least they're not doing stuff like this:
There have been a few race-related and other hateful incidents reported in post-election Wisconsin, but it's nothing like the level found in some other states.
Oh my, once again with the Southern Poverty Law Center. I find the word "experts" to be amusing too.
Have you read about the hiring of paid troublemakers by Soros, Planned Parenthood and other leftist groups?
None of this bodes well for leftist organizations.
The masses will NOT buy into their brand or message anymore.
It is now impossible for them to hide their work when they try and gin up fake issues.
Oh my, once again with the Southern Poverty Law Center. I find the word "experts" to be amusing too.
Have you read about the hiring of paid troublemakers by Soros, Planned Parenthood and other leftist groups?
They are an organization dedicated to tracking that stuff, including hate crimes that may arise against whites (from black nationalist groups, etc.) and any that may arise against Trump supporters (and a few such incidents have already been reported).
Must be biased, right?
Yes, indeed, I have heard of the "paid troublemakers," and though I haven't investigated to see what is credible and what is just internet fakery, it wouldn't surprise me if there's a bit of it. But I would doubt most protestors are on the payroll, just as most pro-Trump is probably not fake.
It seems like your approach is: "If it indicts the left, it's true. If it indicts the right, it's false." It isn't anyone's fault but your own if you can't try for a reasonably balanced view of a complex situation.
That's what got this country into this mess in the first place!
Living in both MS and WI for most of my life, I always find it humorous that the north seems to think the south is so racist, compared to them. All I can say that here in MS, we have had no recent riots that I'm aware of. No one is burning down businesses that someone has worked so hard to obtain. No police shootings of supposed innocent black men. I grew up in Menomonee Falls, in the 60's and 70's, it was lily white, and being of Armenian decent and darker skinned, I got called "******" many times...or Chocolate Pie, as I recall. Down here in MS, our gentile and respectful ways for one another are legendary and people still respectively address one another as "Sir" and "Mam". Racism exists everywhere, and its still here in MS, maybe not as blatant as it use to be. Of course, there is still that menacing confederate state flag of ours. Or Ole Miss's Rebel mascot. All things considered though, MS is certainly not anymore racists than anywhere else, let alone WI.
Living in both MS and WI for most of my life, I always find it humorous that the north seems to think the south is so racist, compared to them. All I can say that here in MS, we have had no recent riots that I'm aware of. No one is burning down businesses that someone has worked so hard to obtain. No police shootings of supposed innocent black men.
Riots and such seem to be a phenomenon related to highly populated, urban environments where class-based black/white segregation is very strong. Mississippi, like most of the rest of the South, is not as urbanized as the northern states; most of the blacks in Mississippi and neighboring states live in rural areas and small towns. OTOH, in the North, blacks are concentrated in urbanized areas, usually places where manufacturing has declined or altogether vanished.
So no, the South hasn't seen the kind of manifestations of racism (and tumultuous reactions) seen in the North, but that's probably because the conditions for that activity don't exist.
This doesn't mean that other (gentler?) manifestations of racism don't exist in the South, though. I lived in Alabama for a while, and though much has changed since the Civil Rights Era, many of the blacks I encountered had a distinctive attitude toward whites: speak only when spoken to, don't be overly friendly, know your place. Maybe the same thing happens in the northern states, but it really stood out to me in Central Alabama. In the smaller cities I was familiar with, blacks stayed on their side of town, and whites stayed on theirs. Ultimately, it's possible that the same level of racism exists, but it doesn't find expression so much in extreme confrontation and violent behavior.
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I grew up in Menomonee Falls, in the 60's and 70's, it was lily white, and being of Armenian decent and darker skinned, I got called "******" many times...or Chocolate Pie, as I recall. Down here in MS, our gentile and respectful ways for one another are legendary and people still respectively address one another as "Sir" and "Mam". Racism exists everywhere, and its still here in MS, maybe not as blatant as it use to be. Of course, there is still that menacing confederate state flag of ours. Or Ole Miss's Rebel mascot. All things considered though, MS is certainly not anymore racists than anywhere else, let alone WI.
I kind of like the "Southern gentility," but I found that (with some people, at least) it isn't very deep. But still, I think it signals a kind of self-control or public filter among individuals and between groups that you don't see so much up north.
Living in both MS and WI for most of my life, I always find it humorous that the north seems to think the south is so racist, compared to them. All I can say that here in MS, we have had no recent riots that I'm aware of. No one is burning down businesses that someone has worked so hard to obtain. No police shootings of supposed innocent black men. I grew up in Menomonee Falls, in the 60's and 70's, it was lily white, and being of Armenian decent and darker skinned, I got called "******" many times...or Chocolate Pie, as I recall. Down here in MS, our gentile and respectful ways for one another are legendary and people still respectively address one another as "Sir" and "Mam". Racism exists everywhere, and its still here in MS, maybe not as blatant as it use to be. Of course, there is still that menacing confederate state flag of ours. Or Ole Miss's Rebel mascot. All things considered though, MS is certainly not anymore racists than anywhere else, let alone WI.
Mmmm, yes, because we don't know what "bless your heart" means. Yeah, big mystery there.
They are an organization dedicated to tracking that stuff, including hate crimes that may arise against whites (from black nationalist groups, etc.) and any that may arise against Trump supporters (and a few such incidents have already been reported).
Must be biased, right?
Yes, indeed, I have heard of the "paid troublemakers," and though I haven't investigated to see what is credible and what is just internet fakery, it wouldn't surprise me if there's a bit of it. But I would doubt most protestors are on the payroll, just as most pro-Trump is probably not fake.
It seems like your approach is: "If it indicts the left, it's true. If it indicts the right, it's false." It isn't anyone's fault but your own if you can't try for a reasonably balanced view of a complex situation.
That's what got this country into this mess in the first place!
It is true that my biases affect some interpretations just as yours do.
You seem to be staying away from my comment that in the end though, if one's actions don't win some of the masses to your way of thinking - one has lost. In my opinion, protesting and running around making loud, childish noises without any end game does not help one's cause and probably hurts it. That is what these people should be worried about.
Hell in the whacky town I'm living in now (Portland OR) the stupid protesters are shooting each other. Yea that's good for the cause.
It is true that my biases affect some interpretations just as yours do.
Yes, of course, but I keep trying to see other viewpoints. Not always successful, but it's worth the effort.
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You seem to be staying away from my comment that in the end though, if one's actions don't win some of the masses to your way of thinking - one has lost. In my opinion, protesting and running around making loud, childish noises without any end game does not help one's cause and probably hurts it. That is what these people should be worried about.
Hell in the whacky town I'm living in now (Portland OR) the stupid protesters are shooting each other. Yea that's good for the cause.
With so much else to comment on, I didn't quite get to all of that.
I'm not particularly bothered by people who protest peacefully (non-violently). Some of it is silly and poor sportsmanship, but some of it is therapy for a some individuals who have few other public outlets to get things off their chest. Some people do have legitimate fears about what the president-elect will do (and appointments made to his administration), so non-violent protest is an option to turn to. The U.S. is one of the very few countries in the world with rights guaranteeing free speech and free assembly, where many people feel that exercising such rights is gauche, socially improper, etc. Though I myself wouldn't take to the streets in protest quite yet, I'd rather live in a society where that is permitted and people make use of it, than in a society where it is prohibited or discouraged.
I don't think the protests change people to their side, nor do the protests really bother a whole lot of people, unless peacefulness turns into obnoxious or violent behavior. The protests do seem to bother some people, though--mostly conservatives, it seems--and only reinforces divisions between the most diehard, vocal liberals and the diehard conservatives. But for the most part, it's like, so what--protest, get it off your chest, and then do something more productive to effect the kind of change you want.
I can see why, in a place like Portland, protests of this sort would be irksome to some people. It's probably harder to tune it out there.
And when the protests do turn obnoxious and violent, that's a whole 'nother story. Bad news on that.
Last edited by Empidonax; 11-16-2016 at 07:12 AM..
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