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You, sir, are obviously un-American Don't you realize that all of these people spending all of this money that they don't have and thus having to work more just to afford the interest is what drives our economy?
On a more serious note - I agree completely. We just moved to Wisconsin from Tacoma, Washington. There we had a cute little (1600sf) bungalow in nice shape, but without a full bath (one 3/4 bath was it) and no garage, in a reasonably good part of town. Going with advice from our realtor we priced it at $320,000. It sold within the first week and we had a second full price offer on it within the following week Note, this isn't in some hot market in California - this is in perpetually gray Tacoma, Washington. Jobs are pretty much 40 miles (an hour and 15 minutes) due north in Seattle/Bellevue. I'm not objecting but I don't understand.
Oh, believe you me, I am as supply-and-demand free market as you'll get! A red-blooded capitalist! I just am consistently boggled that there is such a high demand that prices continue to sell at such outrageous prices in this bloated real estate market...your example was perfect!
Seriously...your example was spot-on! Yeah, am I the only one who realizes that while wages are of course consistently higher than they were 5-years ago, that they are no where near high enough in comparison where a $320K house isn't amazingly expensive! I properly be able to "afford" a $320K house payment, unless you have amazing equity built up, you would truly need a household income in the 6-figures.
I hear you though...if you are the seller, you aren't going to object. But wow, I am with you, how in the world to people just eat prices like that up?? Even out of principle if nothing else, I wouldn't spend far more $$ on a house than it is truly worth...but I guess I am far in the minority!
Seriously...your example was spot-on! Yeah, am I the only one who realizes that while wages are of course consistently higher than they were 5-years ago, that they are no where near high enough in comparison where a $320K house isn't amazingly expensive! I properly be able to "afford" a $320K house payment, unless you have amazing equity built up, you would truly need a household income in the 6-figures.
Right. A *household* income like that isn't too hard to come up with in most of the crazier housing markets - we had one - but it will usually require both people working. In our case we opted to not have kids - a perfectly good idea when we were living in Tacoma but here in Waupun I'm wondering if we'll regret it - but the number of kids being raised by daycare and the school system so that their parents can afford a McMansion or similar breaks my heart
The confusing part to me is that a 1600sf bungalow in a high crime city that doesn't see much sun goes for $100,000 more than a 2800sf Victorian in fantastic shape in a very low crime city that actually has seasons. Sure there's a winter here that Tacoma never experiences but still.....
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Even out of principle if nothing else, I wouldn't spend far more $$ on a house than it is truly worth
This just goes to prove that you're not the capitalist that you claim to be - real capitalists don't have any principles
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...but I guess I am far in the minority!
And I'm glad of it since I work in the housing industry
Right. A *household* income like that isn't too hard to come up with in most of the crazier housing markets ....... the number of kids being raised by daycare and the school system so that their parents can afford a McMansion or similar breaks my heart
Yep, you have not only hit the nail on the head, but hammered that nail. It is all about priorities in life. My wife and I - with us having two little children at home - have decided for her to stay home with the kids as a full time Mom. She is a bright woman who could make a nice salary...combined, we could likely make in the $90K range (maybe in a year or a couple in the $100K range). As it stands, I am out there as the sole breadwinner together and we bring in more half of those figures. Thus...we are left in the dust with alot of the McMansion type stuff or alot of other things that we see a multitude of our colleagues around us being able to own.
Jealousy is certainly an emotion that can come into play from time to time. Often, it is tempting to get her back into the workplace for both of us.
But then we remember what you just said - our kids and bringing them up ourselves are more important to us than living in a McMansion. Life is very short...houses don't endure, but the experiences of raising your children do. I would rather be lower-middle class and have the ability to have my wife or I raise our children rather than be upper-middle class but have to pay other strangers (daycares, schools, etc.) to raise our children just so we can live like the Joneses. But it is frustrating...our current real estate market, etc., has been built up by the American consumer (not the supplier) to encourage dual-income households for sure.
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Originally Posted by escapetacoma
The confusing part to me is that a 1600sf bungalow in a high crime city that doesn't see much sun goes for $100,000 more than a 2800sf Victorian in fantastic shape in a very low crime city that actually has seasons. Sure there's a winter here that Tacoma never experiences but still.....
I far prefer the Wisconsin climate to that of the SeaTac area. I saw a stat recently that showed Milwaukee as having 90 sunny/clear days per year on average (I realize you aren't in Milwaukee but I am sure it is similar where you are) with Seattle getting 58. Folks, that is an extra month-plus of sunshine you'd get in Milwaukee (not exactly an area reknowned for being a hotbed of abundant sunshine). That is a big difference.
And like you say, while Wisconsins' winters are gray, long, and freeeeeeezing cold (versus the Pac NW's winters of non-freezing weather yet chilly, gray, drizzly rain), really, is that THAT much better (45 degrees with low gray clouds and a chilly drizzle versus 15 or 20 degrees? Neither is pleasant - you'll be looking to be indoors either way). And in tradeoff, you get the great, warm-to-hot WI summers and awesome falls.
I far prefer the Wisconsin climate to that of the SeaTac area. I saw a stat recently that showed Milwaukee as having 90 sunny/clear days per year on average (I realize you aren't in Milwaukee but I am sure it is similar where you are) with Seattle getting 58. Folks, that is an extra month-plus of sunshine you'd get in Milwaukee (not exactly an area reknowned for being a hotbed of abundant sunshine). That is a big difference.
Those stats don't sound quite right. Mostly I see things like 185 for Milwaukee and 150 for Tacoma so I wonder if you dropped some ones? The absolute difference is still the same - more than 1 month/year of sunny days - but the percentage differences are way skewed.
What doesn't come out from the Seattle/Tacoma data is that the vast majority of the sunny days happen together during the summer. The 8 or 9 months without are the real killer. This last year Seattle had a fully sunny day for Halloween. The next one was sometime in the last week of December.
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And like you say, while Wisconsins' winters are gray, long, and freeeeeeezing cold (versus the Pac NW's winters of non-freezing weather yet chilly, gray, drizzly rain), really, is that THAT much better (45 degrees with low gray clouds and a chilly drizzle versus 15 or 20 degrees? Neither is pleasant - you'll be looking to be indoors either way). And in tradeoff, you get the great, warm-to-hot WI summers and awesome falls.
Actually autumn in Tacoma was usually very pleasant - though not as colorful as I'd expect it to be around here.
Note that there are a lot more things that are fun to do when it's cold, even down to just below zero, and dry than when it's chilly and wet.
Those stats don't sound quite right. Mostly I see things like 185 for Milwaukee and 150 for Tacoma so I wonder if you dropped some ones? The absolute difference is still the same - more than 1 month/year of sunny days - but the percentage differences are way skewed.
See for yourself here - the stats don't lie! (Milwaukee at 90 days and Seattle at 58):
Moderator cut: linking to competitors sites is not allowed
I've seen these numbers elsewhere as well but they may all derive from one location. Best guess is that there are about 100 days in each location that are "predominantly" sunny, but not strictly sunny.
I have found that if you want polite, friendly people, you have to go to a smaller town. Johnson Creek and Watertown, which I occassionaly go to because of relatives, seem to have down to earth people. Even the teenagers say please, thank-you, and excuse me. I have lived in Virginia, Naperville Illinois, Lake Geneva WI, Kenosha WI, Waukesha WI, and now we live in Oconomowoc. Illinois was the worst. I would say "thank you" at stores and people would mumble back or not answer you at all. I was pregnant, people never opened doors for me when I was at my largest (not that I expected them to), but upon going up to Kenosha (same time period) I had to go to the mall, and a shaved head teenager opened a door for me the first time I went to the mall, and the second time another opened the door (different day, different teen) (just an unexpected surprise). I really liked Lake Geneva because it was like a Door County of sorts. People were polite, friendly. Oconomowoc is pretty friendly...sometimes you have to extend yourself first, be the initiator, but if you do, I find people are very willing to strike up a conversation with you. It's fabulous to walk, ride, run, etc. Oconomowoc is beautiful, historic looking with renovated victorian houses on the main street, and the lakes are awesome. Property taxes are very affordable.
Hi all- Just a rant/vent. I've lived in suburban Milwaukee most of my life , and I'm wondering if others are getting as frustrated with the area as I am.
I love to bicycle, but can no longer take the weather. Obviously, it's cold most of the time, but to make matters worse, when it finally does warm up, you can count on 20+ mph winds, making cycling dificult, not to mention hazardous.
Then there's the social climate. Growing up here in the 70's and 80's it was nice here. you had friendly folks, plenty of woods and farmland teeming with wildlife. Most of the woods and farms are gone now, replaced by overpriced Mc Mansions, or "luxury" housing. Most(not all) of the friendly people have been replaced by standoffish, self-centered affluent people, who drive oversized and overpriced SUV's with a cell phone glued to their ears, and their noses in the air. Where fake tans, designer clothes seem to be Government Issue, where people are judged by the car they drive, and their investment portfolios.
Just wondering if others notice this too, and if there are any places that would be an improvement that might be worth looking into. Thanks all!!!!!
Hi Turpentine--
Sorry you're feeling crummy about your locale. But the SUV/cell phone- materialism thing is pretty much a universal issue everywhere now, sadly.
Just remember when relocating, that we here in warmer climes (I'm outside of Dallas) have our problems as well. You may think you know what heat is, but trust me, you don't until you've experienced this. 101 with 65% humidity or something similar. The other day at 94 our heat index was 105. Our problem is the reverse of yours. During the summers, it can sometimes be so freaking hot and humid down here that no one wants to go outside and leave the air conditioning. I sometimes don't see my neighbors for months at a time.
I guess you pick a climate you can most easily live with and go for it. I've been here for 37 years. I'm probably one of the few people on earth looking forward to leaves changing and snow.
I find such generalizations of a whole state utterly ridiculous,someone mumbled at you and didnt open the door so that = a black mark for the whole state? I have met wonderul folks in Wisconsin and thats the majority,EXACTLY the same in Illinois.Theyre are rude jerks in EVERY one of our states-EVERY ONE of them,,,not one owns the patent on RUDE
I simply was stating MY experience...and I would not say such a thing unless it happened in a more than usual manner than the other states I have lived in. Yes there are rude people everywhere. But, for some reason, MY experience was in the Naperville Illinois and surrounding areas. More often than not, people did not respond in what would be considered an appropriate pleasant manner, when greeted, and thanked. I don't know why. It was just that way. If it was because I stunk or there was something strange about me, I would think other people in the other states that I lived in would respond in a similar manner. As far as the teenagers holding the door in Wisconsin...as I said...I wasn't expecting it...I thought it was interesting that teenagers, had an unusual amount of thoughtfulness or awareness of others. Again, maybe they were strategically placed there to surprise people (sarcasm), but I was impressed because it was very thoughtful, it was on two separate occassions, AND I have noticed that teenagers in Wisconsin, not all, but more frequently than what I noticed in other states, seem to be more polite. Could it be a reflection of the adults that raise them, I think it does say something. Maybe other people have had different experiences, but this is mine. People can decide based on my explaination whether what I am basing my opinion on is ridiculous, or not a fair sample. Or they can just read it as one person's experience and not take it for anything more than that alone.
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Don't you realize that all of these people spending all of this money that they don't have and thus having to work more just to afford the interest is what drives our economy?
but I don't understand.
