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I have a professional degree (professional as in engineering, IT , etc) and I don't have a problem with my spelling or with my grammar. It isn't liberal arts that teaches these things--they should be learned long, long before a student gets to college.
And I disagree with all of the comments that the problem is the decline of writing standards in schools. The problem is not writing but READING. Schools could have students write until they are blue in the face, but if they have never read and thus have never seen the words spelled properly or the sentences structured correctly, they will simply be repeating the mistakes over and over again. As the slogan goes, reading is fundamental.
My point was that people with, let's say, an Enlish degree, tend to have more of an edge in writing skills than someone with a more technical degree/education. The reason you went into engineering/IT probably wasn't because you loved to read or write. In fact, for many whom I personally know, it was the exact opposite. It's great that you can write simple, straight forward sentences that are grammatically correct. But there's much more to writing than just simple, straight forward sentences.
To elaborate on my earlier post, I think that liberal arts majors tend to have an edge on reading and writing skills, moreso in the creative aspects of both skillsets, over someone in a technical field. They were drawn to those types of majors for a reason; because they enjoyed learning about them. With that being the case, I think they have a niche in business fields such as marketing, where creative writing skills can be a major asset.
But posts like this simply irritate the hell out of me because you understand so little about what it takes to achieve a BA from a legitimate institution. I'm glad you went to the library to learn about history and what not, but getting a degree in any field takes quite a bit more effort than someone running to the library at their own whim whenever they feel motivated to learn about something.
I'm not dissing your accomplishment. It takes smarts and fortitude to make it through four years of schooling at a good university. Congratulations for doing so. But, I have serious issue with the current societal paradigm of needing a B.A. to do an entry-level office job. In reality all you need to do is show up on time, know how to work a computer, speak and write well, do what you're told, have half a brain and pick things up reasonably quickly. These are skills that can and should be learned in K-12.
I'm not dissing your accomplishment. It takes smarts and fortitude to make it through four years of schooling at a good university. Congratulations for doing so. But, I have serious issue with the current societal paradigm of needing a B.A. to do an entry-level office job. In reality all you need to do is show up on time, know how to work a computer, speak and write well, do what you're told, have half a brain and pick things up reasonably quickly. These are skills that can and should be learned in K-12.
Hey you're preaching to the choir. I don't think a degree should be required for a lot of the mindless jobs out there that employers need filled. Their mentality is if they can get it, why not expect it. These are $12-$14/hr. jobs we're talking about, too. It's pathetic, and employers are just milking the system.
The point of my response to nicet is that a college degree is typically not something you can just wake up one day and decide you're going to get (unless you buy your degree from UPhoenix or ITT). That's kind of the impression I get from him and people with his mentality. In fact, many of these people probably wouldn't survive some of the "menial" liberal arts classes, since so many of those professors are smug ***holes that would intellectually chew them up and spit them out.
\In fact, many of these people probably wouldn't survive some of the "menial" liberal arts classes, since so many of those professors are smug ***holes that would intellectually chew them up and spit them out.
They wouldn't survive becase either they are not smart enough, or they don't study enough. Remember: UofP has the largest dropout rate of any college in America. ...then, can you imagine that some people actually lie on their resumes about graduating from UofP???? Wow--what dolts.
A huge number of college graduates can't write a coherent paragraph. What happened to our education system? Everyone wasn't hiding under the desk. There are too many educated people walking around out there who are functionally illiterate.
I remember writing all the time. Piles of essays and blue book exams. You couldn't be successful without at least mediocre writing skills.
This is partly why I believe that Liberal Arts majors should still have a place carved out for them in business.
I do agree that in theory a liberal arts major should have an edge in writing and "right-brain" creativity skills. However, the liberal arts degree is rather broad, and there are too many liberal arts graduates today. Are some of them bright creative people who would fit well in some business positions. Absolutely. However, the liberal arts degree has been watered down, and the degree does not hold as much weight today as it did in the past, especially when counting the number of liberal arts graduates unable to write a proper 5 paragraph essay. If a non-native English speaker with an engineering degree can do it, why not a native-English speaker with a liberal arts degree? For gosh sakes, you would expect this kind of thing to be covered during high school.
Liberal arts graduates who are interested in business probably should go for a graduate business degree (MBA, MA Business); because quite frankly, the general "degree mill" liberal arts graduates out there make all the liberal art graduates look bad, even the bright talented ones.
I hardly imagine that these degrees represent 80% of today's class of college degree holders.
...
But posts like this simply irritate the hell out of me because you understand so little about what it takes to achieve a BA from a legitimate institution.
I get your frustration; and unfortunately, many people do think that obtaining a college degree from a crappy school takes just as much work and dedication as obtaining a college degree from a top-tier school (which could not be further from the truth). I respect BAs from top-tier schools. However, the "supply" of BAs exceed the "demand". And unfortunately, talented BA degree holders are displaced from their potential.
Boi wat yll talkin bout. lolz i tipe fiine. Ma techer wud tel me dat im da best in da class. n dat i give da best spechs over da ova studunts. I dun even has a resume cuss im PRESHUS! whatevz
TRANSLATION
The assumptions behind your argument are absurd and border on fallacy. My written word is better than Mark Twain and the best orthographer. Over the years, my teachers have often commented on the logic employed in my speeches. Recently, I haven't carried an updated resume with me because I am a regularly employed professional.
I'm not saying that they all should have impeccable grammar and spelling, but there should be a minimum standard of coherence. I don't care about a mildly misplaced semi-colon or an incorrect tense of a word. But, spelling pursue as "persue"? Using "your" when it should be "you're"? Dear Lord. Have standards really dropped this low when it comes to post-secondary education? Can people even write a paragraph anymore?
Don't even get me started. Many of my employees are required to write reports on a regular basis. Some of them are younger and not long out of college, and some are older and more experienced when they come to my company. I have had numerout people from both camps who come in and have writing skills that are on par with what I would consider to be an average 8th grader. Part of my job is to review their reports - which should most be for content, but in some cases I find myself having to explain basic grammar and sentence structure. Very sad indeed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson
Most people have no idea how bad it really is.
I LOVE the cover letters that use texting abbreviations such as....
R U still hiring for this job? I C R have an add in the paper. My skillz are gr8.
LOL
It would be funny if it were not so sad.
20yrsinBranson
I have never seen text-speak in a cover letter yet (I might fall out of my chair oif I did), but if I get a CV or a cover letter from an applicant that contains numerous spelling and / or grammatical errors. Then their application goes right in the ol' circular file; I do not even care what their experience is.
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