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As a person with an economics background, I thought this would be an interesting article to discuss/debate.
I thought the following paragraph was particularly interesting:
Creative retraining programs would help as well. Denmark provides a good example: when companies there shed workers because of outsourcing, the government continues to pay those workers for two years, but on a declining scale and only with the promise that they attend retraining programs for jobs in higher-growth industries.
I believe we need to look back at history and see what happens when you add high unemployment, low wages, and the concentration of wealth in a slim majority. The fact is, it is never good when you have a growing segment of the population that is barely making it. I know we live in America, and the overwhelming belief tends to be 'Well it ain't my problem; every man for himself', but history shows us that that is not really the case. We're all tied into one economy, therefore, each individual action adds up and impacts society as a whole.
In all seriousness, do we actually think that high rates of unemployment and and stagnating wages will result in something good over the long haul? If you do think so, do you mind explaining how? Just look at places with high unemployment, poverty, and stagnating wages. What do you see? Crime. Lots of it. Has anybody been to Detroit, MI or Flint, MI lately? It's not a pretty site. This is a serious consequence if we go about ignoring this issue over a long period of time.
Anyways, these are just my thoughts. What do you think? Let's keep this as civil as possible. I'd actually like to read some intelligent dialogue. Maybe we can learn something from each other.
Location: Moose Jaw, in between the Moose's butt and nose.
5,152 posts, read 8,538,508 times
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heck no, we're closer to having an economy that's more like Mexico, than it is Japan, thanks to this "trickle down" crap, that Reagan started and no president since then, thanks to the rich that bribe their parties, has had the guts to seriously turn it around....Obama is the closest we've had to someone who is trying (but still falling why short in this regard) and too many call him a socialist and a commie.
I've been thinking too about the increasing difference between rich and poor, in this country it's statistically not as bad as in the US but as bad as it's ever been here since before WW2, eroding the narrowing of the gap done in the 1950s-70s. History says it can't and won't go on forever, but what if anything can be done about it short of chopping off the heads of Wall Street bankers a la 1789 or 1917?
When times are good it seems your every-man-for-himself way of running an economy works best at providing a good standard of living for a high proportion of people and keeping the masses contented, but I'm convinced in a recession like this one the advantages of the social welfare state like the one in Germany/Holland/Scandinavia become more apparent in maintaining social harmony and seem more adaptable at making the most of their people.
I bet history is full of nightmarish predictions that never came true but whatever the answer is this time, the near future might well be a very interesting and turbulent place.
Creative retraining programs would help as well. Denmark provides a good example: when companies there shed workers because of outsourcing, the government continues to pay those workers for two years, but on a declining scale and only with the promise that they attend retraining programs for jobs in higher-growth industries.
Maybe they can try that on the welfare and section 8 program. If it works there, then maybe I'd get behind it though I don't believe we need another entitlement program.
Maybe they can try that on the welfare and section 8 program. If it works there, then maybe I'd get behind it though I don't believe we need another entitlement program.
Agreed. Actually it was started with Welfare over a decade ago, but it hasn't really made much of a dent.
I'm completely against paying more taxes, considering all the waste, overlap of roles, nepotism, and dead weight in government offices already. With the exception of a truly miniscule segment of population who are unable to care for themselves due to serious mental or physical defect (the profoundly retarded for example) the government shouldn't be responsible for providing benefits to anyone. That should be left in the hands of private charitable organizations.
That should be left in the hands of private charitable organizations.
If they can be proven effective, I'm all for this as well.
The point I take issue with in this article and in some of the economic data that is available to the public is that income distribution is so one-sided in this country. Now, some people I've spoken to say, "Who cares?" Well, I do, for one. I'm sure most others who are familiar with domestic economic issues do as well. Off-shoring and importing of cheap labor has created a monopoly on the labor markets for businesses, large and small. We are no longer working within the confines of a free market system. The flood gates have been opened and the markets have flooded. We cannot compete with $6/hr. skilled labor out of China or India, no matter how you cut it. The only way we could compete is if we took a few steps backwards in our economic progress. I'm thinking back to the 70s or 80s.
I read something yesterday or today that said it would cost the average American 16 cents a day more per person to "Buy American" and that doing so would create 200,000 jobs within the first few months alone.
So what do you think we should do about these problems you describe that hundreds of PhDs and MBAs haven't already thought of?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3N1TH 0N3
Creative retraining programs would help as well. Denmark provides a good example: when companies there shed workers because of outsourcing, the government continues to pay those workers for two years, but on a declining scale and only with the promise that they attend retraining programs for jobs in higher-growth industries.
[Isn't this the same as Unemployment Insurance in the US?]
The fact is, it is never good when you have a growing segment of the population that is barely making it.
[That could be said if one person is barely making it.]
I know we live in America, and the overwhelming belief tends to be 'Well it ain't my problem; every man for himself',
[We do have all sorts of social programs to help those who need it. Not only government programs but private programs too. Very few people will fall through the cracks don't want to fall through the cracks. If the illegal aliens can make it with all the barriers they have, American citizens should be able to make it too.]
In all seriousness, do we actually think that high rates of unemployment and and stagnating wages will result in something good over the long haul?
[That's like asking "Do you actually think having a cold will result in you graduating college?" Good things happen and bad things happen. Nobody wants high unemployment but the world is a huge economic machine and it is constantly adjusting and unemployment and wages are metrics we look at to gauge the health of this machine.]
If you do think so, do you mind explaining how?
[The American system encourages ingenuity, creativity, efficiency, and novelty. Why do you think the smartest people in the world migrate to the US? It's because there are opportunities to be successful which often benefits others by providing jobs or making our lives easier. Good will probably happen anyway. ]
Just look at places with high unemployment, poverty, and stagnating wages. What do you see? Crime. Lots of it. Has anybody been to Detroit, MI or Flint, MI lately?
[There have always been places of high crime and poverty.]
It's not a pretty site. This is a serious consequence if we go about ignoring this issue over a long period of time.
Anyways, these are just my thoughts. What do you think? Let's keep this as civil as possible. I'd actually like to read some intelligent dialogue. Maybe we can learn something from each other.
So what do you think we should do about these problems you describe that hundreds of PhDs and MBAs haven't already thought of?
Creative retraining programs would help as well. Denmark provides a good example: when companies there shed workers because of outsourcing, the government continues to pay those workers for two years, but on a declining scale and only with the promise that they attend retraining programs for jobs in higher-growth industries.
[Isn't this the same as Unemployment Insurance in the US?]
No, unemployment insurance provides a security net while people look for new jobs, but there are no significant programs that help retrain people. What good does looking for a job do when you're experience/skills are obsolete? Ever heard of a 99er?
The fact is, it is never good when you have a growing segment of the population that is barely making it.
[That could be said if one person is barely making it.]
This is stupid. Won't waste my time responding.
I know we live in America, and the overwhelming belief tends to be 'Well it ain't my problem; every man for himself',
[We do have all sorts of social programs to help those who need it. Not only government programs but private programs too. Very few people will fall through the cracks don't want to fall through the cracks. If the illegal aliens can make it with all the barriers they have, American citizens should be able to make it too.]
Really? So we have a competitive advantage over people who work for pennies on the dollar, who lie to get into this country, who steal from the system?
In all seriousness, do we actually think that high rates of unemployment and and stagnating wages will result in something good over the long haul?
[That's like asking "Do you actually think having a cold will result in you graduating college?" Good things happen and bad things happen. Nobody wants high unemployment but the world is a huge economic machine and it is constantly adjusting and unemployment and wages are metrics we look at to gauge the health of this machine.]
It's a huge economic machine that can and has been manipulated to benefit certain people, particularly people with money and power to influence. Your analogy is totally off the wall and does not apply to this situation.
If you do think so, do you mind explaining how?
[The American system encourages ingenuity, creativity, efficiency, and novelty. Why do you think the smartest people in the world migrate to the US? It's because there are opportunities to be successful which often benefits others by providing jobs or making our lives easier. Good will probably happen anyway. ]
This is a Glenn Beck talking point. Why don't you respond to the income distribution data?
Just look at places with high unemployment, poverty, and stagnating wages. What do you see? Crime. Lots of it. Has anybody been to Detroit, MI or Flint, MI lately?
[There have always been places of high crime and poverty.]
And those places are growing. How is that good?
I realize your post was simply a way for you to try to throw a wrench into this discussion, so I don't expect a response from you.
As a person with an economics background, I thought this would be an interesting article to discuss/debate.
I thought the following paragraph was particularly interesting:
Creative retraining programs would help as well. Denmark provides a good example: when companies there shed workers because of outsourcing, the government continues to pay those workers for two years, but on a declining scale and only with the promise that they attend retraining programs for jobs in higher-growth industries.
I believe we need to look back at history and see what happens when you add high unemployment, low wages, and the concentration of wealth in a slim majority. The fact is, it is never good when you have a growing segment of the population that is barely making it. I know we live in America, and the overwhelming belief tends to be 'Well it ain't my problem; every man for himself', but history shows us that that is not really the case. We're all tied into one economy, therefore, each individual action adds up and impacts society as a whole.
In all seriousness, do we actually think that high rates of unemployment and and stagnating wages will result in something good over the long haul? If you do think so, do you mind explaining how? Just look at places with high unemployment, poverty, and stagnating wages. What do you see? Crime. Lots of it. Has anybody been to Detroit, MI or Flint, MI lately? It's not a pretty site. This is a serious consequence if we go about ignoring this issue over a long period of time.
Anyways, these are just my thoughts. What do you think? Let's keep this as civil as possible. I'd actually like to read some intelligent dialogue. Maybe we can learn something from each other.
OK, I'll ask again, What are your suggestions? What should be done?
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