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It just grinds my gears (to quote Peter Griffin) to have to see all these nonsense bullsh*t tv ads that are on all hours of the day and night that go on and on about schools and universities sending the ultimate message that "this is the answer-this will get you the job of the dreams" I especially hate Itt tech-these students blather on and on about what the school did for them and they are in the career of their dreams. Are they paid actors of something? Heck there is even a school that says they will pay all your bills if you are not employed after graduation! How unrealistic is that? Well this "knowledge economy" really needs to go and the old system of getting a job needs to return. The days when people started from the ground up when they were teenagers and finally became a good wage earner by the time they were 24 all without some fancy degree from some fancy school. In the old days people apprenticed when they were teenagers and worked under an experienced person's tutelage. In specialized trades-like mechanic, plumber, etc. Wow, those were the days!
Why should someone in this miserable economy shell out more money to go back to school to pursue an advanced degree when eventually they will rack up more student debt aftr taking out a loan? Isn't it a lot better an option to slug it out in another entry level job if one comes along? It makes no sense. Its not what school you go to. Where I come from it's who you know. Always. In the Southeast that is the darned truth, with the nepotistic culture that exists. ALso I get tired of hearing about networking-I know a lot of that is part of the answer but I'm a quasi-recluse and very antisocial and the only people I do know aren't interested in jobs or work.
People need to swallow their pride and I think more of that is going on and the taste is not so sweet. I mean look at how uppity som e middle class Americans have been back in the day about how they won't take those low wage jobs...well now those low wage jobs have gone overseas and Middle class America is looking around wondering where they went to. It looks like a sad situation from however angle you look at it without a answer in sight
I agree that having a degree isn't a guarantee of anything anymore.
I think the apprentice-ship or learning on the job is a good model --- it seems that a lot of employers don't want to train employees anymore. Of course, why should they have to?----with hundreds of applicants for every job opening they can afford to pick and choose and find someone who is already experienced or trained.
I agree that having a degree isn't a guarantee of anything anymore.
I think the apprentice-ship or learning on the job is a good model --- it seems that a lot of employers don't want to train employees anymore. Of course, why should they have to?----with hundreds of applicants for every job opening they can afford to pick and choose and find someone who is already experienced or trained.
Germany is really big on the apprentice-ship model. But their more socialist overall over there.
The flip side of training is that individuals don't invest in themselves and get training unless an employer pays for it. It's sad really. If an individual doesn't value themselves, why should an employer?
I also agree that a degree isn't the answer for most people. However, I am a big proponent of continuous training/learning... both formal and informal.
It just grinds my gears (to quote Peter Griffin) to have to see all these nonsense bullsh*t tv ads that are on all hours of the day and night that go on and on about schools and universities sending the ultimate message that "this is the answer-this will get you the job of the dreams" I especially hate Itt tech-these students blather on and on about what the school did for them and they are in the career of their dreams. Are they paid actors of something? Heck there is even a school that says they will pay all your bills if you are not employed after graduation! How unrealistic is that? Well this "knowledge economy" really needs to go and the old system of getting a job needs to return. The days when people started from the ground up when they were teenagers and finally became a good wage earner by the time they were 24 all without some fancy degree from some fancy school. In the old days people apprenticed when they were teenagers and worked under an experienced person's tutelage. In specialized trades-like mechanic, plumber, etc. Wow, those were the days!
Why should someone in this miserable economy shell out more money to go back to school to pursue an advanced degree when eventually they will rack up more student debt aftr taking out a loan? Isn't it a lot better an option to slug it out in another entry level job if one comes along? It makes no sense. Its not what school you go to. Where I come from it's who you know. Always. In the Southeast that is the darned truth, with the nepotistic culture that exists. ALso I get tired of hearing about networking-I know a lot of that is part of the answer but I'm a quasi-recluse and very antisocial and the only people I do know aren't interested in jobs or work.
People need to swallow their pride and I think more of that is going on and the taste is not so sweet. I mean look at how uppity som e middle class Americans have been back in the day about how they won't take those low wage jobs...well now those low wage jobs have gone overseas and Middle class America is looking around wondering where they went to. It looks like a sad situation from however angle you look at it without a answer in sight
Unfortunately, while a degree is not the answer, NOT having one is a real problem. Having one is no guarantee of a job but not having one pretty much seals your fate. A degree today is like a high school diploma in the 60's. The minimum employers expect.
Germany is really big on the apprentice-ship model. But their more socialist overall over there.
The flip side of training is that individuals don't invest in themselves and get training unless an employer pays for it. It's sad really. If an individual doesn't value themselves, why should an employer?
I also agree that a degree isn't the answer for most people. However, I am a big proponent of continuous training/learning... both formal and informal.
I think that statement is brilliant. There are so many comments that are made on these boards which often make me think that people really lack initiative these days. Call it entitlement or whatever you want. It almost seems that because we, as individuals, are more often the customers/consumers in life; we take that mindset to our careers as well. In essence, looking to be hand fed the training, skills, experience etc as oppose to taking advantage of the opportunities that are out there.
Also agree with the OP that the degree is not the answer. A degree is just a piece of paper - its the experience/knowledge that you gained while earning that degree is what one is after. Of course, the said experience/knowledge is only as valuable as the amount of work they put in. You can't just go through the motions and expect to have the same results as those that put in real effort.
I believe that any degree obtained with the soul purpose of gaining employment or advancing ones employment is a waste of time, energy, sleep, money, life etc. There are people out there who truly have a life-long passion for their desired field or for the pure love of learning. Those are the people who will find their degrees invaluable.
I agree that having a degree isn't a guarantee of anything anymore.
I think the apprentice-ship or learning on the job is a good model --- it seems that a lot of employers don't want to train employees anymore. Of course, why should they have to?----with hundreds of applicants for every job opening they can afford to pick and choose and find someone who is already experienced or trained.
For many the cost of training has gotten so high they can't afford to do it anymore.
I was never college material. Tried for one year, failed miserably and hated every minute of it.
But that I hated college (San Jose State... yes, I really went) is an understatement. Rather than go to class I would have been happier sitting in a corner pulling my teeth out with rusty pliers. I could write a book about how worthless the college experience was for me. I swear I had some "professors" that were dumber than boxes of rocks and from there my respect for them went down. I wish I could meet my English 101 professor just so I could tell him how stupid and dumb he really was but he's got to be in his upper 80's or dead by now. He really was a very stupid man. But it wasn't me, it was the way I am made up, wired if you will, and I know I am not alone in this.
But the college industry, and I repeat it is an industry in every sense of the word, needs a steady supply of new students so they puke out the bunk about how the only road to success is through college all the while racking up tens of thousands of dollars in debt some of which will never be paid off. It's the tab we pay for keeping the college industry healthy and vibrant! It's the idea that only if you pay thousands of dollars up front will you ever amount to anything.
So I took a different route. I dropped out of college (I just stopped going so I guess I really didn't drop out), sold my car to use the money to obtain a private pilots license. Once I got that I used my GI bill, I was drafted right out of high school and got out of the military before my 21st birthday so I was still plenty young, to go to flight school. Here I got my commercial pilots license, instrument rating, milti-engine rating along with both basic and advanced instructors certificates. From here I worked in the aviation industry as a pilot for very low pay but had a great time doing it.
I ended up not staying in aviation opting instead to go to work for one of my flight students learning how to design fire sprinkler systems. Turned out it was a good move for me.
There are a wide range of careers that really d require some specialized training. If some one is smart about what kinds of training will have a high probability of leading to a career that is "in-demand" that is can be a huge boost to one's income. There are plenty of traditional colleges and universities that do a terrible job of connecting what they teach to the reality of current economic conditions and a handful that do a very good job of this -- some of the best departments for this at traditional schools tend to be the engineer fields. It sorta makes sense that the PRACTICAL knowledge that typically is the focus of engineering degrees is generally in-demand from employers.
If some one does take classes at a for profit school and understands the likely careers that they'll be prepared for it can be a very wise use of time & money.
I believe that any degree obtained with the soul purpose of gaining employment or advancing ones employment is a waste of time, energy, sleep, money, life etc. There are people out there who truly have a life-long passion for their desired field or for the pure love of learning. Those are the people who will find their degrees invaluable.
Yes, I'm sure the people who get a BA in English/History/PoliSci because they are "passionate" about it will find their degrees invaluable as they toil away at Wal-Mart or Kroger making $9 an hour, saddled with $40k in student loans that they are unable to discharge. I live in the real world.
Yes, I'm sure the people who get a BA in English/History/PoliSci because they are "passionate" about it will find their degrees invaluable as they toil away at Wal-Mart or Kroger making $9 an hour, saddled with $40k in student loans that they are unable to discharge. I live in the real world.
In the real world, the more passionate you are about something the more likely you are to peruse it. I live in the real world as an English major getting my masters in professional writing while working as a professional writer full time and making more than most people my age. I went back to school because I love writing, love learning and find students and professors much more interesting than my co-workers.
People getting degrees just to get a job will eventually get bored, burnt out and end up miserable. No thanks. Id rather be happy and living to my full potential then be rich at I job I have no passion for any-day. Fortunately, people who are passionate about what they do often go much further in life then those just trying to get by.
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It just grinds my gears (to quote Peter Griffin
) to have to see all these nonsense bullsh*t tv ads that are on all hours of the day and night that go on and on about schools and universities sending the ultimate message that "this is the answer-this will get you the job of the dreams" I especially hate Itt tech-these students blather on and on about what the school did for them and they are in the career of their dreams. Are they paid actors of something? Heck there is even a school that says they will pay all your bills if you are not employed after graduation! How unrealistic is that? Well this "knowledge economy" really needs to go and the old system of getting a job needs to return. The days when people started from the ground up when they were teenagers and finally became a good wage earner by the time they were 24 all without some fancy degree from some fancy school. In the old days people apprenticed when they were teenagers and worked under an experienced person's tutelage. In specialized trades-like mechanic, plumber, etc. Wow, those were the days!
