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I am trying to decide what master's degree to pursue. I am currently a teacher in elementary and special education, but I do not have a full time position due to lay-offs and other things. I currently live in Pennsylvania and I want to go in a different direction with my career, that is why I am pursuing a masters in a different field. I know want to either pursue a masters in counseling or social work but I do not know which one is more benefical, or pays better etc. I want to be a therapist, but I heard social workers can do therapy, but therapist cannot get a social work job. Also, I heard that a MSW degree is recognized in all 50 states and can bill more insurance companies with their LCSW license companies than a LPC (counselor) can.
In addition, when it come to counseling degrees their are so many different ones to choose from. It is very confusing. The five schools I found each offer different degrees. I am wondering if their is a difference between what jobs you are eligible for or if one is "better" in theory. They are as follows: Masters of Science in Counseling psychology (MSCP); MS Professional Counseling Major; M.S.Ed Masters of Science in Education with a mental health track; Clinical Mental Health Coupling MA; or a MSW which is obviously social work. Does anyone have any insight on which type of degree is more beneficial.
Also, I was wondering if you can pursue a doctorate after your receive a masters. If the masters will count toward the doctorate. I would be interested in the Clinical psychology Psy.D. program. Is it true that in order to pursue a doctorate, you must obtain a MA NOT a MS degree?
What I really want to do is work one on one with clients and help them with issues and provide feedback or work as a mobile therapist. I do not really want to help people find various services (which is from what I understand is what a social worker does). Also, if you could clarify the difference between what a social worker can do and what a professional counselor can do? I am not really understanding what the differences are. The more I read about each profession, the more I am getting confused.
I appreciate any information, I know I asked ALOT of questions but I am going crazy trying to figure all of these answers out.
I believe most PhD programs see a master's as a losing move. You go into the PhD program from the bachelor's world. There are a lot of threads about MSWs and LICSWs and various master's degrees to do therapy. Please search them.
If you want the most flexibility, I'd go with the MSW, especially if you think you might be moving to another state. With that said, social work does come from an idea of working with people and helping them use resources from the community. Everything I've seen of their curriculum is less counseling based than other degrees. On the other hand, I've been to therapists with a MSW before and I didn't notice anything different. They were very competent and it didn't really feel any different than going to anyone else who might have had a more counseling based background.
This has been something I've been looking into myself, off and on.
I would also add that you might want to ask this question over at the education board because it is focused on the pros and cons of different degrees.
I have an MSW with an ''independent'' license in my state and I have been practicing for over 25 years.
I have worked as a medical/renal social worker in home health, hospice, dialysis, community mental health, and hospitals.
I've also worked in private practice as a therapist.
Because I am an MSW with this license I am eligible for hire in the health care areas I described. An other degree would not get you hired as an MSW is required for most of the higher paying positions.
Commercial insurers and Medicare will reimburse you for your therapy services more readily with an MSW, of the two degrees you mentioned.
I received the basic ''clinical'' training in my program to be licensed. Then you go on to grow professionally through continuing education, workshops, training institutes, further certifications. Specific modes of psychotherapy, marriage and family therapies, etc.
Yes, you can go on for the Doctorate of Social Work in areas such as higher education, clinical practice, administration, policy-making, etc.
I chose the MSW degree years ago for it's marketability and versatility. Turns out I made the choice that really offers all that.
I recommend asking this question on a more specialized forum. However, from what I understand, the MSW went from being essentially useless (salary wise, that is) to one of the best values in psychotherapy today. They seem to enjoy a pretty wide scope of practice. However, I surprised at how dang hard it seems to be to get an LCSW. I don't think you can take it immediately after graduation.
I believe the answer to this question varies a lot from state to state. In California, for instance, there seems to be a lot of Marriage and Family Therapists doing regular psychotherapy. I guess they have pretty permissive laws for that out there. I recommend spending some time on the different websites of PA boards to figure out what the scope of practice is and what that means for you.
I am trying to decide what master's degree to pursue. I am currently a teacher in elementary and special education, but I do not have a full time position due to lay-offs and other things. I currently live in Pennsylvania and I want to go in a different direction with my career, that is why I am pursuing a masters in a different field. I know want to either pursue a masters in counseling or social work but I do not know which one is more benefical, or pays better etc. I want to be a therapist, but I heard social workers can do therapy, but therapist cannot get a social work job. Also, I heard that a MSW degree is recognized in all 50 states and can bill more insurance companies with their LCSW license companies than a LPC (counselor) can.
In addition, when it come to counseling degrees their are so many different ones to choose from. It is very confusing. The five schools I found each offer different degrees. I am wondering if their is a difference between what jobs you are eligible for or if one is "better" in theory. They are as follows: Masters of Science in Counseling psychology (MSCP); MS Professional Counseling Major; M.S.Ed Masters of Science in Education with a mental health track; Clinical Mental Health Coupling MA; or a MSW which is obviously social work. Does anyone have any insight on which type of degree is more beneficial.
Also, I was wondering if you can pursue a doctorate after your receive a masters. If the masters will count toward the doctorate. I would be interested in the Clinical psychology Psy.D. program. Is it true that in order to pursue a doctorate, you must obtain a MA NOT a MS degree?
What I really want to do is work one on one with clients and help them with issues and provide feedback or work as a mobile therapist. I do not really want to help people find various services (which is from what I understand is what a social worker does). Also, if you could clarify the difference between what a social worker can do and what a professional counselor can do? I am not really understanding what the differences are. The more I read about each profession, the more I am getting confused.
I appreciate any information, I know I asked ALOT of questions but I am going crazy trying to figure all of these answers out.
This is a real pet peeve of mine. Social workers do tend to get paid more (although, no always and not much) for counseling which makes no sense because if you want to be a counselor, you go to school for counseling. Social work IS NOT COUNSELING! But, I digress. They are in no way the same thing. It's very frustrating to me when people say they are the same or that you can counsel as a social worker. Yes, you can, but it takes awhile to get to that licensure level and if you are wanting to be a counselor...then why not just do that? It sounds like you are wanting to do that and not be a social worker. To counsel people, you are going to need to look up what your state requires. Most states do not accept master's in psychology. They do not go to the extent as a master's in counseling does and therefore, you would have to take extra classes. Also, check the requirements for your states degree. Most require you have 66 graduate hours and some programs only offer 48. I haven't heard of some of those degrees before...but anything with a "track" is probably not enough to meet state requirements. And remember, you might move to another state, so find something that is easily transferable from state to state. These are usually the simple master's in counseling/mental health counseling degrees. If you are wanting your ph. d or psy. d in psychology, just go straight into the program. But remember, a psychologist and a counselor are also not the same thing, especially a clinical psychologist. You will do counseling but the whole point of getting the doctorate degree in psychology is for testing. It is experiments, statistics, facts, very clinical stuff for the doctorate in psychology degree. I got my master's and took a few doctorate classes for a ph. d in clinical psychology and HATED IT! If your focus is people, stick with the master's. If your client needs testing, refer out. Also, the bump in pay for a Dr. is not much....around $7-10k extra a year, but your degree will cost much more than that because doctorate degrees in psychology run from 4-5 years. And no, you can just have any master's it does not have to be MA or MS.
The only insurance that a clinical social worker can charge that a counselor cannot is medicare. Again, I see no reason for this, it is stupid and makes no sense and it is being fought for by LPCs on the national level. I mean, it just makes sense that those that went to school for COUNSELING would be able to charge any insurance for COUNSELING. Ugh. Again, digress. As for differences, a social worker does SOCIAL work. Families, communities, services. Counseling can be done but not on a mental health level that a professional counselor does. A professional counselor offers individual, marriage, family, or group counseling. From ADD to borderline personality disorder to anger to depression. A counselor does not offer to find services and does not usually work with community services for clients. A social worker works with communities, detention centers, protective services, etc. A counselor specifically offers counseling, therapy, psychotherapy-whatever you want to call it. Also, a counselor can be trained in many different types of theories and orientations-REBT, CBT, Gestalt, Person Centered, TF-CBT, and on and on. I'm sure a clinical social worker can but again, why not just do counseling if that's what you want? The time it take to get to a clinical social worker level takes a long time. In Texas, there are 8 different social work licenses. For LPC, there are only 3.
You can open a private practice with either one, or work in a group practice, or work for an agency, although I have done that and agencies and institutions are just a place where people's motivation for the field goes to die...it's ok to start with for about a year then get out quickly...
The above poster is simply wrong that social workers at the Masters level are not counselors.
My clinical track included counseling techniques for individuals, families, and groups. It specifically addressed psychotherapeutic techniques and approaches. Also abnormal psychology, mental health diagnosis, crisis intervention, chemical dependency counseling, etc. and my clinical license tested me for all of that and more.
Not all social workers are psychotherapists. Those that are obtain on-going training in various schools of psychotherapy and this involves therapeutic techniques.
Also, just to note, ''counseling'' is not the same as ''psychotherapy''. Look it up.
MSWs can go in other directions in their concentrations and focus on education, advocacy, case management, policy, community organization, and research, just to name a few areas.
The MSW degree offers a MUCH more wholistic and broad approach to working with people and therefore has a broader, i.e. more ''marketable'' set of skills than just an LPC degree. Plus we are trained in a 60 semester hour program that encompasses the range of counseling techniques.
A Master's in Counseling is not billable in many, many settings. A Master's in Social Work is not only billable, it's extremely flexible -- you can end up doing anything from crisis counseling to writing policy.
There is the PhD in Counseling Psychology. Clinical Psychology is not the only option. In order to become an LPC or LMHC, most states require 48-60 semester hours or the quarter hour equivalent, not 66 credit hours. I don't know about most states, but I know of some that will take a master's in psychology, social work, counseling, marriage and family therapy, or related fields for LPC or LMHC licensure.
The social work degree is more flexible, but I believe LPCs/LMHCs are better trained in counseling. There are some psychology PhD programs that will give you advanced standing for a master's in psychology. Some courses from a counseling degree might be applicable to a PhD program, but I don't think many social work courses would. The bump in pay in going from a counselor to a psychologist is substantial. It's about $20-30k.
This is a real pet peeve of mine. Social workers do tend to get paid more (although, no always and not much) for counseling which makes no sense because if you want to be a counselor, you go to school for counseling. Social work IS NOT COUNSELING! But, I digress. They are in no way the same thing. It's very frustrating to me when people say they are the same or that you can counsel as a social worker. Yes, you can, but it takes awhile to get to that licensure level and if you are wanting to be a counselor...then why not just do that? It sounds like you are wanting to do that and not be a social worker. To counsel people, you are going to need to look up what your state requires. Most states do not accept master's in psychology. They do not go to the extent as a master's in counseling does and therefore, you would have to take extra classes. Also, check the requirements for your states degree. Most require you have 66 graduate hours and some programs only offer 48. I haven't heard of some of those degrees before...but anything with a "track" is probably not enough to meet state requirements. And remember, you might move to another state, so find something that is easily transferable from state to state. These are usually the simple master's in counseling/mental health counseling degrees. If you are wanting your ph. d or psy. d in psychology, just go straight into the program. But remember, a psychologist and a counselor are also not the same thing, especially a clinical psychologist. You will do counseling but the whole point of getting the doctorate degree in psychology is for testing. It is experiments, statistics, facts, very clinical stuff for the doctorate in psychology degree. I got my master's and took a few doctorate classes for a ph. d in clinical psychology and HATED IT! If your focus is people, stick with the master's. If your client needs testing, refer out. Also, the bump in pay for a Dr. is not much....around $7-10k extra a year, but your degree will cost much more than that because doctorate degrees in psychology run from 4-5 years. And no, you can just have any master's it does not have to be MA or MS.
The only insurance that a clinical social worker can charge that a counselor cannot is medicare. Again, I see no reason for this, it is stupid and makes no sense and it is being fought for by LPCs on the national level. I mean, it just makes sense that those that went to school for COUNSELING would be able to charge any insurance for COUNSELING. Ugh. Again, digress. As for differences, a social worker does SOCIAL work. Families, communities, services. Counseling can be done but not on a mental health level that a professional counselor does. A professional counselor offers individual, marriage, family, or group counseling. From ADD to borderline personality disorder to anger to depression. A counselor does not offer to find services and does not usually work with community services for clients. A social worker works with communities, detention centers, protective services, etc. A counselor specifically offers counseling, therapy, psychotherapy-whatever you want to call it. Also, a counselor can be trained in many different types of theories and orientations-REBT, CBT, Gestalt, Person Centered, TF-CBT, and on and on. I'm sure a clinical social worker can but again, why not just do counseling if that's what you want? The time it take to get to a clinical social worker level takes a long time. In Texas, there are 8 different social work licenses. For LPC, there are only 3.
You can open a private practice with either one, or work in a group practice, or work for an agency, although I have done that and agencies and institutions are just a place where people's motivation for the field goes to die...it's ok to start with for about a year then get out quickly...
Let me know if you have anymore questions.
Where are you getting this from that Texas has 8 different social work licenses and 3 different LPC licenses? Do you mind listing them? Please don't tell me you're counting provisional and temporary licenses.
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