Gen Y isn't lazy (contract, background, school, places)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Gen Y has high expectations because they were told by the school counselor that college would make everything happen for them. They were never told that their generation would be the most educated burger flippers in history. That has made them bitter and now they are complaining, and because they are complaining many boomers and even Gen Xers ( who have faced the same issues for much longer) are calling them lazy. They are complaining because they are tens of thousands in debt and feel hoodwinked, and they are just plain mad about it. I think their complaining and anger is justified and having older people call them lazy just makes them more angry. College has become a scam, and from reading a few of your previous posts I think you agree with that. My parents generation did not need college and most of them got good jobs that took care of them for life. On the job training prepared people for the career and that system worked well. Now we have this expectation that kids get a degree, spend 100k etc. We are ruining their lives with this debt when we push them into college that they may not need. There are no where near enough professional level jobs to satisfy the desires of all these college graduates. We need to be honest with young people and tell them the truth. Many of you will flip burgers, many of you will dig ditches or work in sweat shops and some of you may have no job at all. A few very ambitious, well connected and intelligent people will gain the professional job that all college grads dream of, at least until the economy melts down. Its time for a reality check for everyone. We live in a nation where we have outsourced our manufacturing jobs, the very jobs that powered the post war boom that built the middle class. Chinese people now do them for a fraction of the cost. We build hardly anything anymore, and our government spends like drunk sailors, and now we are 20 trillion in debt. Truth be known our country may not be around that much longer, as national bankruptcy (which is inevidable) may ruin this country for good. There should be no expectation of anyone starting out today for the middle class life their parents had. That life was shipped off to China 20 years ago. The person that will do best in the new world is one who is frugal, independent and who can take care of him/her self. Knowing how to fix things, grow things and hunt your supper are the skills that will help one succeed in the new world. Your small income is worth a lot more if you can provide your food without a trip to the store, and its worth a lot more if you can repair your own car, house etc. These kind of skills used to be common, but today few have them. They will be very valuable in the future. I know I sound negative, but I don't see any return to the "good ole days". Our leaders sold us out with trade agreements and runaway debt spending, just like ole Ross Perot warned us they were doing back in 1992. I knew he was right then, and so sad its all been proven true.
I don't think the government will go bankrupt, but otherwise I agree with your points to some extent.
Go for it. CDL and HazMat certification and you're well on your way to a $75,000+ salary within three years - and it's upward from there.
I'm talking history here, but it pertains:
I was graduated from high school, went to college, got a poli sci degree in international studies. I won't complain about that, because I then went into military intelligence where that degree worked out well for me.
But my best friend was graduated from high school and became a welder. He went a few steps further and learned how to weld exotic metals. Through the 80s, he was one of a small handful of welders who could repair oil drill bits in the field. When an oil company breaks a drill bit, they're losing thousands of dollars a day. When oil companies called my friend, they didn't even ask his fee. They only asked, "Can we send a helicopter for you right now?"
This post sums down to parents and students being idiots and blaming others for it. Luckily, only a few people are this dumb. The average college debt is only $25k.
No, that's the partial story. Read several sources to get a fuller picture. The $25/26K figure is from colleges providing information on only federal government loans.
I guess you don't understand the difference between the terms "entitled" and "earned." That's about all the sense I can make out of this post.
When you earn money and with that earned money, contribute to a fund for decades, and are told for your entire career spanning decades that this money will be given back to you, that sense of entitlement is, well...EARNED.
One person's "earned" is another's "entitled." I just wonder how is it that you take say a millennial and tell them that all they need to succeed is a college degree and that isn't earned. I EARNED my college degree. It was a rough seven years due to moving and self-motivation issue my first two and a half years (I was burnt out and went through the school of hard knocks nearly flunking out because I couldn't drop a course freshman semester.) Like you, I put time and effort into it (ended up with ant 3.4 GPAs in my associates in business and bachelor's in management) and yes (sadly) my parents paid for it (they made to much to get non FASFA based loans and grants not could I get too many scholarships being a white male, trust me I looked as well as they didn't press me to look for a job in school, they rather me get the grass because I would work the next 40+ years anyway.) A degree I was told (similar to your pay into SS for future generations and it will be there for you) and I would get a good job. Guys what, we both ended up lied to. The sad part is it will take years to figure out if the bombers who live past 2033 and Gen X who retire at that point is more screwed up or if it is me for taking the "the wrong degree" for my major and struggling to get a foot hold in the world.
Another thing is, many people have told this lie where it is educational institutions (think of how many seminars for you or your children have said college education is vital for success), politicians (think of how many time President Obama has mentioned college degrees are the path to better paying jobs) or even parents who didn't go or didn't graduate college. Now there is a jump in some college to bachelor's earnings, yes... but when you show these wages, we're not talking about the starting wages for entry level, NOBODY ever gives that one too enrolling students out enrolled students (I wonder if that is because they fear the truth will scare some of right off the bat.) In that case, it is maybe better short term to whether straight from high school and work enough to become the McDonald's management trainee or do a trade program. Now yes, both routes typically pay less on the long term but you have less debt on the whole. It's a trade-off, not a perfect one. It's like do you take your lottery endings in one lump sum or over the next 20 years. Again, no perfect answer because say you or my parents winning it, would take it lump sum and get taxed because you may not live long enough to see out all and it ends with your death while me, I could be fine with taking the annual payouts or lump sum payouts though I would make more through annual.
In that case, it is maybe better short term to whether straight from high school and work enough to become the McDonald's management trainee or do a trade program. Now yes, both routes typically pay less on the long term but you have less debt on the whole. It's a trade-off, not a perfect one. It's like do you take your lottery endings in one lump sum or over the next 20 years. Again, no perfect answer because say you or my parents winning it, would take it lump sum and get taxed because you may not live long enough to see out all and it ends with your death while me, I could be fine with taking the annual payouts or lump sum payouts though I would make more through annual.
Or do both, but switch the order. A good technical cert takes only a year or two and a couple of thousand dollars. Do that first, get a job that keeps you afloat and allows you to save some money (yes, live frugally). Then after a couple of years look at what going further will do for you. By then you'll have a better picture and can begin that bachelor's degree with more knowledge of what you really need and want.
I'm trying to figure out how government is that high as most government jobs have mediocre to awful pay outside of some federal jobs, and most government jobs are paid by the state. In Missouri the average state worker's salary is $40,000. I don't mean that's the salary of an entry level state worker, that's the median.
That is what many of us are trying to tell those that think a $35,000+ a year job is what they need to have a decent entry level job. The median income per resident is just over $25,500 in Missouri, the median in the country is just over $28,000 a year. $40,000 is considerably higher than $25,000 especially when you consider the additional benefits that most government jobs provide. Missouri QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau
Here is some more food for thought, the median household income is just over $45,000 a year, meaning that just one person in the house working for the government puts the household just below the average household in the state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by panderson1988
Also some majors fall into many categories. For example, I have a Bachelor of Science in Business Administration with an emphasis in Marketing. My school, Mizzou, gave you a business degree in which you emphasis in Accounting, Marketing, Management, or Finance. Now I'm trying hard to get into a field that is more analytical as I've conducted a market research project, analyze data, and create reports. So that can fall under statistics, but interesting enough most analyst positions I've seen don't require a statistics degree. Most require a business degree, or something specific like healthcare or finance depending on the industry.
so you got the wrong degree for what you want to do, it happens more than most seem to realize, the problem is now that you have to convince someone that you can translate that degree into helping them more than the person that got the right degree and wants to the job. Practice your resume and letter writing skills not to mention your interviewing skills as it is an uphill battle that many have faced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by panderson1988
Also what is sad some of the worst paying majors have some of the strongest growth. Social work will have considerable growth in the future when more and more baby boomers retire and need aid, but they are predicting the salaries will remain low in that field. Also we are encountering a teacher shortage, and that is a field that will never pay well outside of private schools or tenure college professors. Then the rest of the majors which are basically arts type majors have never been known to make you rich. Being an actor or a musician is a tough market to get into, and you need considerable talent to get in. That said the top 10 worst majors aren't common with a lot of students. I even knew some engineer majors who struggled a few months out of college to get work, and it was the experience issue to companies twiddling their thumbs taking months to make a decision.
Sure the in demand jobs are providing services, the economy has been transitioning to a more service based economy for the last 50 years, and those jobs do not pay as much as something where you are producing tangible assets that require skill and actual labor. It is something we all have to deal with, and as the baby boomers retire it will get worse in that services will grow while many of the productive type jobs are farmed out of country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by panderson1988
My point is some majors like engineers will make more money is true; however, we are facing more and more competition from overseas. My dad is an electrical engineer at Unilever, and his main project team is run by Indians in Mumbai. I've seen more and more companies prefer to hire engineers from India or China over US students. I'm not entirely sure what the reason is, but it's a common trend. So even the high demand engineer students now have to face competition from overseas students coming to the US, and lets face it, US colleges waste half of our years on worthless gen ed to electives crap that nobody needs.
why do they take Chinese and Indians? they work more hours for less money and are usually more loyal, producing a similar product. Unless the buyers demand product produced in the states that trend will probably remain in place. However if the people in the US start producing products again, and our quality improves to the point where people around the world demand it, than we have a fighting chance, until then wee have to compete with the lowest common denominator.
Us BBers were told from the minute we conceived these children, that GOOD PARENTS provide a college education for their kids, that if we want to give our kids the tools they need to be successful in the brave new world, they HAVE to have at least a four year college degree. Anything less is neglect bordering on abuse - redneck, backwoods ignorant. We were bombarded with college savings plans, career counselors, scholarship "opportunities" to push our kids toward, guilt trips, investment brokers, OUR parents, everyone with this mantra that our kids MUST GO TO COLLEGE OR THEY WILL FAIL AND IT WILL BE OUR FAULT.
So we believed it. And we got screwed too.
And that's the truth. 75 percent of us never finished college, but we wanted better for our kids. And for this we get demonized?
I think we've all been scammed by higher education.
Agreed, and with young children it is actually getting worse instead of better, I have 1st and 2nd grade teachers already preaching about the need to start helping them prepare to get into good schools after high school. It is no longer a question about whether they should go to college, but how good of a school they can get into.
When I told the teacher that I am allowing my kids to be kids and will not be pushing them until they are old enough to understand what they would like from their future she looked at me like I lost my mind.
Agreed, and with young children it is actually getting worse instead of better, I have 1st and 2nd grade teachers already preaching about the need to start helping them prepare to get into good schools after high school. It is no longer a question about whether they should go to college, but how good of a school they can get into.
When I told the teacher that I am allowing my kids to be kids and will not be pushing them until they are old enough to understand what they would like from their future she looked at me like I lost my mind.
There was a bill in Florida that would have required elementary kids to declare their college majors. I believe it failed, but it showed some really wrong-headed thinking going on in academia.
No, that's the partial story. Read several sources to get a fuller picture. The $25/26K figure is from colleges providing information on only federal government loans.
They're still idiots. Why would you take on $79K in debt when you can go to colleges like Cooper Union and Penn for almost free? If you look at where the highest debts are, you'll notice that they are with students who attended for-profit schools and state schools. While those with the least debt attended private schools (or top public schools like UMich).
They're still idiots. Why would you take on $79K in debt when you can go to colleges like Cooper Union and Penn for almost free? If you look at where the highest debts are, you'll notice that they are with students who attended for-profit schools and state schools. While those with the least debt attended private schools (or top public schools like UMich).
A student who graduates from a private university with little to no debt had a lot of help. It is hard for some to fathom, but not everyone can run to their deep-pocketed mommy and daddy.
The average state school costs around $17K/year to attend (including books and room & board). It is not unconscionable that a student with limited funds would graduate from an institution like this and be $70K in debt.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
