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Old 05-14-2014, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,215 posts, read 11,328,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke View Post
There are a lot of people out there who have lost the desire to work. They want a paycheck, but they don't want to do the job that goes with it.

I know several people who have job openings and can't find anyone to hire. Or they have to fire new employees almost immediately because as soon as you aren't standing there staring directly at them, they set down their tools and stare into space. Or they sit at their desk and play computer games instead of doing their work.
Perhaps if reasonably well-educated employees were allowed to benefit from a greater sense of empowerment and autonomy while on the job?

Let me begin by saying that I was recently involuntarily separated from a "fast-pace" job in an automated warehouse: everyone involved recognized that attitude was not a problem. The employer, (which relies heavily opon electronic monitoring rather than physical observation) simply expected more physical input in a given amount of time than a 64-year-old in a crew full of twenty- and thirtysomethings could provide.

Not that big a problem: I moved back to the rural are where I will be retiring (hopefully, not too) soon, signed on with a temp agency I've dealt with before in lean times, and come this Sunday evening, I go back to work.

But a job I held with the 2010 Census was a fine example of the way I feel many "continuous-process" jobs could be reorganized around the employee, rather than straight-lacing the employee to fit the job.

Flexible hours - any time between the 7:00 AM opening and 12:01 AM closing was OK -- split your day, spread the work over 6 or 7 days, or take long lunches -- just don't put more than 8 hours in one day, or 40 hours in one week "on the clock" unless authorized.

Work was there, waiting to be done; you fired up your tools and cranked it out. No "May I Help You? / Have a nice day!" nonsense; no forced smiles.

And no intelligence-insulting, demeaning, expensive, and unnecessary dress code beyond general cleanliness, neatness and comfortable "business casual"!

In short, a lot like when I finished high school and went to the much less-structured life of undergraduate study, (and my grades improved substantially).

Now I recognize that people deal with the Census only because the law requires it but most of our "customers" were no more interested in unnecessary "in-your-face" contact than were we. And the fact is, that in a post-industrial economy, more of our wants are linked to the direct use of someone else's time and attention. But there exists a substantial component of the population which is either unsatisfied with the amount of needless pampering they get, or simply gets a jolly or two out of raising an issue.

And while I've done income taxes as a sideline for over thirty years, I have no desire to come into an office everyday to face an appointment book filled with 8 hours of baby-sitting (I might feel a little differently if they were give to understand that every minute they dawdle with personal issues and "pictures of the grandchildren" put more money from their pocket directly into mine.)

Just one curmudgeon's rant --- but I think I says a lot about the link between the devolution of both the workplace, and the work ethic.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 05-14-2014 at 12:45 PM..
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Old 05-14-2014, 12:32 PM
 
1,475 posts, read 2,555,462 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caltovegas View Post
one thing i was told that had some truth but i didn't understand at the time was if a person learns to sell they are never really unemployable.
+100
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Old 05-14-2014, 12:46 PM
 
1,475 posts, read 2,555,462 times
Reputation: 670
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
I have a question I've asked in other posts in reply to bootstrapping, How can people bootstrap when their proverbial bootstraps are broken?
Every entrepreneur and/or businessman has had broken bootstraps at one point or another. A person can start a business with a phone (cell or land line) and a working brain. Nothing more is needed.

Here is a quick rundown:
1. Find a product/service that is needed/wanted. You do that by talking to people.
2. Determine the barrier to entry of the business.
3. If the barrier to entry is too high for you. Talk with investors or look for a different product/service.

That's it! What most don't realize is that people tend to look for the next billion dollar product/service. That is when you begin to need big dollars for R&D.
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Old 05-14-2014, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,885,452 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caltovegas View Post
What you say is true so why don't we hear more of people needing to build a good financial cushion in case they have to flee. It kind of seems crazy to take on a 30 year debt without any job security and the older a person gets the bigger the risk of an economic crisis. Lose that job at 40-50 and good luck finding comparable income.

People need to get back the hunting and survival skills. One thing I was told that had some truth but I didn't understand at the time was if a person learns to sell they are never really unemployable. Someone will need their services and in many cases the sky is the limit.
The issue is hunt changed. Many people on C-D think oh, just walk up to every business and you'll find a job. As I mentioned perhaps when they did it even 15 years ago, you could. Now you may get 1 if anything. It's all go online. Job fairs are all go online too with no interviews right then and there like people believe you can get. Instead of heading out and trying to meet with employers, now you have to sitdown and do online applications and wait hand and foot by the telephone and e-mail to see the updates.

As for your financial cushion idea, it's part of how the economy is now. The economy does not give incentives to savings at all. To buy a house, car, etc in many cases you need to have a good debt history unless you can pay with cash (which most people actually cannot do.)
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Old 05-14-2014, 12:53 PM
 
1,475 posts, read 2,555,462 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaveyL View Post
Maybe they would have 1 or 2 customers each?

There's also economies of scale.

My grandmother wonders why I don't build computers for people. Quite simply, I can't compete with the big places like Dell, HP, etc. and the big box stores. Also, you have all the established locally owned places.
Everyone doesn't need to start their own business. In other words there doesn't need to be one business for each person. But in today's knowledge worker age that is an option for many business structures. They are a shell company so to speak. They do nothing but sell and then hire other companies to do the work.

If you had 1000 people all working for a share of the profits you could compete with the big players.
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Old 05-14-2014, 12:56 PM
 
1,161 posts, read 1,311,861 times
Reputation: 872
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
The issue is hunt changed. Many people on C-D think oh, just walk up to every business and you'll find a job. As I mentioned perhaps when they did it even 15 years ago, you could. Now you may get 1 if anything. It's all go online. Job fairs are all go online too with no interviews right then and there like people believe you can get. Instead of heading out and trying to meet with employers, now you have to sitdown and do online applications and wait hand and foot by the telephone and e-mail to see the updates.

As for your financial cushion idea, it's part of how the economy is now. The economy does not give incentives to savings at all. To buy a house, car, etc in many cases you need to have a good debt history unless you can pay with cash (which most people actually cannot do.)
Our system punishes savers. You're "better off" investing in the stock market even though it is highly volatile. We're lucky if we get a few pennies on our savings accounts these days. Also, government bonds are also worthless these days as well.

What sucks is I had a hard time buying my house and doing a refi, even though I put up almost 50% on my house up front. And by the time I did a refi, I owned well over 2/3 of my house.
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Old 05-14-2014, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,885,452 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich_CD View Post
Every entrepreneur and/or businessman has had broken bootstraps at one point or another. A person can start a business with a phone (cell or land line) and a working brain. Nothing more is needed.
You forgot about an important part, MONEY. I am not talking billions, not even millions or hundred thousands. I am talking about in the thousands, tens of thousands to be honest. People that cannot rub two dimes together, do not have the money to start a business at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich_CD View Post
Here is a quick rundown:
1. Find a product/service that is needed/wanted. You do that by talking to people.
2. Determine the barrier to entry of the business.
3. If the barrier to entry is too high for you. Talk with investors or look for a different product/service.

That's it! What most don't realize is that people tend to look for the next billion dollar product/service. That is when you begin to need big dollars for R&D.
The issue is for many products there are too many barriers to enter into the market. I took courses in management including start-ups. If you cannot find a market without barriers to entry or an idea that is a true need. Coming up with a great idea that has few barriers to entry with or without investors is not as easy as one would think it is.
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Old 05-14-2014, 01:26 PM
 
1,161 posts, read 1,311,861 times
Reputation: 872
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
You forgot about an important part, MONEY. I am not talking billions, not even millions or hundred thousands. I am talking about in the thousands, tens of thousands to be honest. People that cannot rub two dimes together, do not have the money to start a business at all.



The issue is for many products there are too many barriers to enter into the market. I took courses in management including start-ups. If you cannot find a market without barriers to entry or an idea that is a true need. Coming up with a great idea that has few barriers to entry with or without investors is not as easy as one would think it is.

Or there are areas where one might be good at, but the field is already saturated, possibly over saturated.

And not to mention, everyone is not an "inventor"
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Old 05-14-2014, 01:30 PM
 
1,475 posts, read 2,555,462 times
Reputation: 670
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
You forgot about an important part, MONEY.

The issue is for many products there are too many barriers to enter into the market. I took courses in management including start-ups. If you cannot find a market without barriers to entry or an idea that is a true need. Coming up with a great idea that has few barriers to entry with or without investors is not as easy as one would think it is.
You only need a phone to start a business. If you live in a city setting you don't even need that. It would also be good to get some business cards. Those are around $10 for 100-200.

If someone doesn't have two dimes they can walk around and offer to wash cars or cut lawns then they are on their way to having a business. One sale, one car washed or one lawn cut, and they have a business. Business isn't about forms or offices. It's about building something that satisfies wants and needs.

There are many businesses that need cheap marketing/advertising. Someone can hold a sign by the road for a fee and with one sale they are on their way to owning a media company. I know it's not easy. I have and am struggling to find something of interest myself. But I've started businesses over beer and pizza. Getting my first sale before the pizza was gone then running it out of the trunk of my car!

Every product/service carries with it a barrier to entry. Some are low and some are high. I know people who have started businesses with $100. Some people start a business with no money even though they have BIG dollars in their bank account. That's a real *hunt* and that's where the feeling of being alive really is. Going against the odds and creating something great!!!
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Old 05-14-2014, 01:32 PM
 
1,475 posts, read 2,555,462 times
Reputation: 670
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaveyL View Post
Or there are areas where one might be good at, but the field is already saturated, possibly over saturated.

And not to mention, everyone is not an "inventor"
For every field that is saturated there is another that is unsatisfied.

You don't have to invent anything. You can model what someone else is doing somewhere else.
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