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I'm pretty sure that getting a Ph.D. and becoming a professor is not the road I want to travel.
I would suspect there's a big difference between (1) sitting in a class, absorbing information, writing papers, and taking exams, and (2) becoming a professor and having to deal with the challenges you both stressed.
The former scenario involves a passive form of learning. The latter case has to do with, well, working for a paycheck. And you know what they say: things usually become less enjoyable once you have to do them for a living because of said restrictions, politics, etc.
As a student, you do follow a syllabus and have deadlines, but you still have the flexibility to choose topics for your papers, study wherever and as much as you wish, etc. You really get as much out of the experience as you put into it.
In short, I miss being a student and being challenged to learn material. I miss going to class, taking notes, studying, getting grades, and all the other stuff required of college students.
Do I want to be on the other side of the fence, as a professor challenging the students myself? Not really. I love writing and research above all else. As I noted earlier, I want to "teach" people through my writing, not orally with a chalkboard.
The key question is: Should I get a master's, or should I simply take classes of interest as a non-degree seeking student? While the second option would turn out cheaper, I'm not sure if I'd be as motivated knowing that I'm only taking them "for fun" and won't have anything to show for it (i.e., diploma) in the end.
Last edited by Wordsmith12; 12-05-2016 at 11:35 AM..
The key question is: Should I get a master's, or should I simply take classes of interest as a non-degree seeking student? While the second option would turn out cheaper, I'm not sure if I'd be as motivated knowing that I'm only taking them "for fun" and won't have anything to show for it (i.e., diploma) in the end.
sigh... again with the something to show for it
why do you keep coming back to this, if i take a class for fun, what do i have to show for it? I have my memories of it, i am more knowledgeable for it, i am just better at that subject than i was a semester ago, that is what you have to show for it.
you don't need a degree to hang on a wall. What's the point of a master degree if you end up working in a basement surrounded by rats and roaches? Do they appreciate it? There is no guaranty that people will even want to look at your dusty masters degree. Who are you going to show it to? if you want to hang it on your wall above your bed so you can sleep better at night, take a photo
I have to agree with the OP, and I struggled with the difference between undergraduate and "corporate" lifestyles for many years after graduation.
A friend of mine put it best; "The single biggest negative about college is that it's followed by a big, looong first period, and they take attendance."
As an undergrad, assuming you attended most classes and paid attention, you were free to satisfy the needs for independent study at whatever hour of day or night suited your mode of living; (things tightened up a little at the graduate level). But most employment, particularly anything above the front lines, revolves around eight hours a day, five days a week in a structured setting. You're monitored constantly, any ability to discharge your responsibilities in less time will only lead to a heavier burden, with the promise that "it'll be remembered at your next performance review". HOGWASH! -- the only thing likely to be remembered is some aspect of your work or mode of living that the powers-that-be don't approve.
If your employer falls on hard times, you'll likely be asked to put in more hours, or to "temporarily' take on additional responsibility -- with no additional compensation, sine you're already "trapped" in a straight salary. And there's no guarantee the whole thing won't fall apart -- thanks to poor judgement by somebody several layers above you in the "up-or-out" pyramid.
There are undoubtedly many people for whom this scenario turns out differently; but the corporate world is seldom friendly to the well-educated introvert who seeks autonomy and clear measures of performance, in a challenging, but well-defined and still-flexible environment.
One of the things I miss most about college, and the shift work call center jobs I held after that, was schedule flexibility.
I've never been a morning person and would never schedule classes unless I absolutely had to before 9 AM. I worked during the evenings at Walmart. There were plenty of times where I didn't have a class until noon or so, got up at 9, and spent two hours at the campus gym before class. If possible, I did night classes. I never needed to study that much so I basically went to class and did the assignments.
With the call center job, I worked numerous shifts, and was able to change them generally with about a month's notice. My favorite shift was 3:30 PM - 2:00 AM Sat., Sun., Mon., Tues. The only time I didn't like it was college football season, but I could still catch a noon game. I had three business days off, so no need to take PTO for doctor appointments, etc.
I work 8-5 now and get up at 7:15 - that's still earlier than I like. Everything I do, from going to the gym to commuting, is stuck at the busiest times of the day. It's not so bad here in a small town, but when I lived in a major city it got nearly unbearable some days.
I'm guessing that Sealie means that being in a PhD program is not all it's cracked up to be for an academically oriented person.
My feeling is that a PhD program involves a lot of office politics, a lot of sucking up to your professor, a lot of grunt work, a lot of higher-ups (professors, in this case) taking all of the credit and glory for your hard work, being forced to focus on a very narrow area that might not even be your main area of interest (but whatever project your advisor has funding for), and seeing your peers make a lot more money for a lot less work. In other words, more like the corporate world than what an academically oriented person wants in academia.
That's what I meant, also it takes the better part of a decade. It's less about learning things and getting good grades, and the things that seem to motivate the OP. Also the job market is pretty cut throat in academia. People often think of grad school as a continuation of undergrad and it's completely different and higher stress.
I'm pretty sure that getting a Ph.D. and becoming a professor is not the road I want to travel.
I would suspect there's a big difference between (1) sitting in a class, absorbing information, writing papers, and taking exams, and (2) becoming a professor and having to deal with the challenges you both stressed.
The former scenario involves a passive form of learning. The latter case has to do with, well, working for a paycheck. And you know what they say: things usually become less enjoyable once you have to do them for a living because of said restrictions, politics, etc.
As a student, you do follow a syllabus and have deadlines, but you still have the flexibility to choose topics for your papers, study wherever and as much as you wish, etc. You really get as much out of the experience as you put into it.
In short, I miss being a student and being challenged to learn material. I miss going to class, taking notes, studying, getting grades, and all the other stuff required of college students.
Do I want to be on the other side of the fence, as a professor challenging the students myself? Not really. I love writing and research above all else. As I noted earlier, I want to "teach" people through my writing, not orally with a chalkboard.
The key question is: Should I get a master's, or should I simply take classes of interest as a non-degree seeking student? While the second option would turn out cheaper, I'm not sure if I'd be as motivated knowing that I'm only taking them "for fun" and won't have anything to show for it (i.e., diploma) in the end.
I've always thought a PhD is a journey one should take because they want to earn a PhD, not as a career enhancement for someone who does not want to pursue an academic career. If you want a possible career enhancement for something outside of academia or technical research, then a master's is likely more appropriate.
I don't know any PhD or professor I had who would see that getting the PhD was worth it monetarily. If someone graduates at 22, they'd likely get their PhD no earlier than 26-27 under normal circumstances. If they graduate later, take longer to earn the PhD, or "start over" after working in another career for some time then pursuing a PhD, they may very well not even get their first academic job until well into their 30s.
I'm 30 and my best friend's sister and one of our mutual friends have a PhD. She's 35, the other guy is 32. She has held an assistant professor position (PhD in human-computer interaction from Carnegie Mellon), but is now working in the private sector. The other had a PhD in chemistry from Indiana University and works in the private sector, but I don't know if he ever wanted to work in an academic setting. Neither are in jobs that require the PhD. They seem to be doing fairly well, but are probably doing no better than had they not gotten the PhDs and just entered the private sector.
Those are a lot of years of foregone wages, retirement savings, and career advancement. It seems to be getting more difficult to get a tenure-track academic position, with schools increasingly relying on poorly paid/non or poorly benefited adjunct faculty and graduate assistants. Many states have cut funding to their higher education institutions, so costs have been cut on the salary/staff side. Personally, I think a lot of private, four-year liberal arts colleges are going to go belly up in the next generation - we are oversaturated with traditional liberal arts educations that cost a small fortune, and are of dubious economic value in today's climate, and this will further stress employment. That's not even counting the impact of technology, where platforms like Coursera may further displace workers as they mature.
Most of the academics I know could not see themselves doing anything else. Almost all of them truly love their work and what they do, and while any profession is going to have drudgery, I think it is an absolutely wonderful job for a segment of society.
Two of my favorite professors were dramatically different men, but both found tremendous fulfillment in their jobs. The first was a Chicago-born Democrat who lived here in Tennessee and teaching was his focus. He did not do as much research as may have been expected, but he was so beloved as a teacher and local politician that he stayed for thirty years. His funeral was absolutely overflowing with former students and community members - I don't think he could have had another job where had had more impact or had people who held him in higher regard. The other is a conservative who, while also a great teacher, has made a later in life pivot as a civilian researcher who advises the US military with his research.
Would I recommend it? I'd at least recommend the introspection.
why do you keep coming back to this, if i take a class for fun, what do i have to show for it? I have my memories of it, i am more knowledgeable for it, i am just better at that subject than i was a semester ago, that is what you have to show for it.
you don't need a degree to hang on a wall. What's the point of a master degree if you end up working in a basement surrounded by rats and roaches? Do they appreciate it? There is no guaranty that people will even want to look at your dusty masters degree. Who are you going to show it to? if you want to hang it on your wall above your bed so you can sleep better at night, take a photo
In this day and age, the need to go to a formal academic institution to simply "learn something" is profoundly out of date. I can learn virtually whatever I want with access to the internet.
Yes, people go to school to learn something, but they also go to complete a program and achieve certain milestones you can't get DIY.
In this day and age, the need to go to a formal academic institution to simply "learn something" is profoundly out of date. I can learn virtually whatever I want with access to the internet.
Yes, people go to school to learn something, but they also go to complete a program and achieve certain milestones you can't get DIY.
he doesn't want the milestone, he wants a wall poster. he hasn't once mentioned getting a masters because he wants it as a career, he keeps going back to getting it so he can hang it on the wall
so yes, you can learn via internet, so why does he want a masters to hang on the wall? how does that impress people?
he doesn't want the milestone, he wants a wall poster. he hasn't once mentioned getting a masters because he wants it as a career, he keeps going back to getting it so he can hang it on the wall
so yes, you can learn via internet, so why does he want a masters to hang on the wall? how does that impress people?
A degree usually implies some "floor" of knowledge.
he doesn't want the milestone, he wants a wall poster. he hasn't once mentioned getting a masters because he wants it as a career, he keeps going back to getting it so he can hang it on the wall
so yes, you can learn via internet, so why does he want a masters to hang on the wall? how does that impress people?
I want the diploma and the sense of accomplishment that comes with it.
It's more than just hanging a piece of paper on the wall.
I want people to know I'm at school -- working hard -- and that I truly enjoy what I'm doing. Being regarded as a cerebral/intellectual guy is important to me. I just don't think that saying, "I watch videos on YouTube" has the same effect.
I feel completely different from you. I enjoy working so much that I don't ever want to go back to school. I guess that because my work gives me a purpose and I always have something to look forward to. I wish I had gone to a community college though. It would have saved me a lot of money.
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