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I'm curious.
If minimum wage was raised by $5 (which is about 50% what it is now), what about all those who are making $15 an hour now with college degrees in entry level specialized positions? They won't get a $7.50/hour raise. They will be making the same as those in positions that do not require special skills or education. Is this fair?
I'm very open to hearing differing opinions without getting into an argument.
What do you think YOU'RE worth?
I'd like this to be an open discussion with no attacks or party-blaming (dems/reps)
In the current economy at about $9-10 an hour as minimum wage, I'd say I'm probably worth $21 an hour.. With a specialized masters and a license to practice therapy. Second year out of school.
If you want to work for $21 go for it, I would not get out of bed for less than $50 minimum, would prefer $70 to $80.
Excellent points, and ones I keep making myself. Everyone wants to live in a hip and trendy place but complain when they get the bill for it.
At $15 per hour, you will not be looking at hip and trendy, more like a slum and decrepit area, especially in places such as SF, LA, Seattle, Boston, NY, Vancouver, Toronto.
There are all types of scarcity. In many areas land is the true scarcity. That quickly changes the type of financially viable development that will happen on it, again driving the price up and pricing out a bunch of lower income people.
Utilities, water, and other infrastructure can also be a 'scarcity' which drives up costs, as can scarcity of skilled building labor, raw materials such as structural steel, and building equipment such as cranes. Right now, almost every tower crane in North America is being used in Seattle. If you want to start a new high rise development you'd have to wait in line just for this one critical component. I know people in other markets that are sitting on tower cranes while they finish financing and permitting because if they give it up it will be many years before they get another one.
Sure, you could live farther out where land is cheap but then people would be back to complaining about the commute.
Regarding your anti-free market comment, if there is demand at a certain price point someone will step in. If no one does then there probably is a good reason.
The real crux of the issue is that those already established in these places use law enforcement to ensure that its extra hard for people to work their way in. For instance the police harass people living in vans to avoid commutes and save money so they can meaningfully save to buy in.
The well to do are the biggest hypocrites because they say, save YOUR money out of one side of their mouth and then work to throw up strategic barriers to entry on the other side to prevent people from having options and opportunity that actually allow this.
That is why there is so much contempt for people that live at home until they are 30 to save for a house, because they cant use the police to rough them up but they are also not collecting obscene rent prices from them either, they (theose that got theres already) view them as insulated interlopers.
You cant really save to buy a house if you are paying massive amounts for rent, the rich know this and they create these complex strategies and social shaming to keep people poor.
When you start off poor, you don't just magicly "work hard" and then trendy house in cool place, no you have to be smarter than those that are trying to use the police to oppress you.
Don't like people dumping sewage out of their van randomly, maybe lobby for rent controls and people would not be in that situation.
Companies used to train new hires all the time as well as promote from within, it wasn't until about 30 years ago that people were expected to be able to hit the ground running
Agreed. Remember how many people with little or no college education joined the police force in their city? Good pay, benefits, pensions, and training on the job. Not any more.
If you want to join a police force today, the majority of them require you put yourself through a 6 week or two month training academy that you pay for before you apply. And in addition, it's supposed to be very intensive so you shouldn't plan on working during this time. Who can afford that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by slyfox2
Probably because its impossible to survive in todays economy making $7.50 an hour. That’s just above $15000 a year, and is way below the poverty level. Even $15 an hour is very low wages in todays economy.
Also, that $15 an hour in many cities isn't expected to even kick in for another 5 to 10 years. By that time, the cost of living will have gone up so high, it'll be worth about $5 an hour less than it is now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton
Only a few years ago, when the minimum wage was around $7-$8 per hour, one could buy a decent hamburger for $2-3, a gallon of milk for $1.50 and see a movie for $3-5. Now, with the minimum wage between $11-$15, the same hamburger costs $5-$8, the milk is now $3-$4 and a movie is $8-$15!
The question many fail to address in these "what are you worth" discussions is, "How much are people able/willing to pay for a hamburger, a gallon of milk or a movie?"
Raising the minimum wage is never going to solve the cost of living problem, for those making minimum wage.
Maybe you have it backwards. Have you ever thought that it was the COL and the prices that went up first, and minimum wage just followed? Let's look at today. We all know minimum wage today isn't allowing people to buy what they could on minimum wage in the 70s compared to the COL then. But what's gone up the most since then, minimum wage or the prices?
Again, prices shoot up and minimum wage creeps up to keep pace. What if we didn't raise minimum wage at all for the next 10 years. Do you seriously think prices will not go up one bit from now to then?
Quote:
Originally Posted by stockwiz
/thread
Minimum wage is supposed to be a high school level wage.
WHERE do you people get this stuff from? Doesn't anyone even bother to check the veracity of what they post anymore? Stockwiz, let me repeat myself:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser
WRONG. Again, for those who know nothing about why minimum wage was first introduced:
Objection: Raising the minimum wage will hurt business and reduce employment.
FDR: “No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.” (1933, Statement on National Industrial Recovery Act)
Objection: $10.10 an hour is too much, maybe $9.
FDR:“By living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level — I mean the wages of a decent living.”(1933, Statement on National Industrial Recovery Act)
Objection: Once you add in public assistance and tax credits, $9 an hour is plenty, and business could survive that.
FDR:“Do not let any calamity-howling executive with an income of $1,000 a day, who has been turning his employees over to the Government relief rolls in order to preserve his company’s undistributed reserves, tell you – using his stockholders’ money to pay the postage for his personal opinions — tell you that a wage of $11.00 a week is going to have a disastrous effect on all American industry.” (1938, Fireside Chat, the night before signing the Fair Labor Standards Act that instituted the federal minimum wage)
Maybe we need to tattoo this on everyone's forehead before they're allowed to graduate high school.
FDR:“By living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level — I mean the wages of a decent living.”(1933, Statement on National Industrial Recovery Act)
Location: San Ramon, Seattle, Anchorage, Reykjavik
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Reputation: 3203
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer
The real crux of the issue is that those already established in these places use law enforcement to ensure that its extra hard for people to work their way in. For instance the police harass people living in vans to avoid commutes and save money so they can meaningfully save to buy in.
The well to do are the biggest hypocrites because they say, save YOUR money out of one side of their mouth and then work to throw up strategic barriers to entry on the other side to prevent people from having options and opportunity that actually allow this.
That is why there is so much contempt for people that live at home until they are 30 to save for a house, because they cant use the police to rough them up but they are also not collecting obscene rent prices from them either, they (theose that got theres already) view them as insulated interlopers.
You cant really save to buy a house if you are paying massive amounts for rent, the rich know this and they create these complex strategies and social shaming to keep people poor.
When you start off poor, you don't just magicly "work hard" and then trendy house in cool place, no you have to be smarter than those that are trying to use the police to oppress you.
Don't like people dumping sewage out of their van randomly, maybe lobby for rent controls and people would not be in that situation.
Work your way in? You think you deserve to live in my neighborhood in your van? Wrong. Again, if you can't afford to live somewhere on your minimum wage job, move to somewhere you can. You are not entitled to live wherever you want if you can't afford it. That's called being an adult.
I grew up poor on a farm. When I turned 18 I moved out and never moved back. Where I come from people who move back home when they are adults are not acting like adults but rather children. Again, live where you can afford to live.
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