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Maybe I’m old school (I’m 43) but hours at our company for most people are 8 to 5. I’m usually at my desk by 7:45. Already got my coffee and water etc....coworkers filter in around 8:15. Then go down to cafeteria to get coffee and or breakfast. Maybe talk for a bit and still leave at 5. It’s not my business obviously since I’m not the supervisor but I just wonder if you have noticed these changes in recent years? When I was in my 20’s I was usually on time as were all my coworkers and if we weren’t we stayed later to make it up (regardless if we were salary or hourly) and in some companies there were penalties for being late. It just seems like people feel more entitled now? I’m not sure. Our dept is extremely busy and most people complain how they are so behind. Well if they are late, spending so much time socializing, what do they expect?
I think people should be on time for meetings, and when they make plans with people for dinner, etc. As for the workplace, I couldn't care less. If people do their job, what difference does it make if they're there at 8:00 or 8:30? If they don't do their job, arriving at 8:00 isn't going to magically change their work habits. And besides, most people work as wage slaves, with little vacation and enormous financial stress. If they want to show up late, the company is still profiting from the exploitation of their underpaid labor, so who cares.
I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you. In fact it seems many of the posts are exactly that -- about working from home, night, weekends, etc to get a job out and then coming in late/leaving early on the days where things are slow. It's kind of the norm in project based work. Don't see anyone having an issue with it.
What I do see people having an issue with is when they are expected to be available nights, weekends, etc AND have butts in seats the rest of the time. That's probably the biggest issue is managers who want to treat you like salaried at night and weekends and hourly during the day.
Yes - I was simply responding to MLSFan. I think we're all on the same side philosophical speaking. My original counter was to what I would call the classic "clock watchers" or "face timers".
Case in point....
Quote:
Originally Posted by don1945
You are not just old school, you are a good employee. I always go by the saying that "If you aren't 15 minutes early for work, you are late." Starting time means you have all the chit chat, getting coffee, etc out of the way, and you are at your post, ready to work.
And we wonder why China and other countries are eating our lunch.
Again - sure, if you're a military sentry or someone that is working in a capacity where the responsibility is based on daily scheduled routines (deliveries, warehouse, retail cashiers, etc), then yes. However, there are a ton of jobs out there where these "rules" are antiquated and unnecessary.
In essence, the guy who shows up before anyone else and leaves after everyone else is a good or bad employee? Who knows? Nothing in that previous sentence mentioned his or her skills/abilities.
Bugs me that those who actually are on time stand around and gab at any given time during the day. All projects depend on us all doing our job.
I tend to slide in under the wire when it comes to being on time. But I work my butt off all day, often through lunch and, because I'm the last to leave, I catch all the end-of-day emergencies that seem to be inevitable. My customers are happy as are the heads of organizations.
But my org doesn't push it. I had one supervisor who pushed it and I made it in on time, no problem. If it was ever an issue then I'd be there early. I work 7:30-5. My coworkers come in at 6 and leave at 3:30. There's some variation but they live closer and choose to get out earlier. I'm better off coming in later and staying later.
I used to work with a guy who was pretty old school. When I worked with him he was a few years away from retirement. He would always boast about coming in first (7AM) and leaving first (4PM) on our team, even beating any managers. I would get in at 7:30 and he would be at his desk eating breakfast, reading the newspaper, and feet up on the desk like he was at home. Then he would get his coffee and go around and shoot the breeze. Finally after 8AM he would start work. Meanwhile I would be working since 7:40-7:45. If you brought that up he would just give you a smart ass remark about doing that routine for 20 years. He would make fun of the people who would come in at 9 (and stay until 6). He thought it was funny, but most thought it was annoying. He was just set in his ways apparently.
With all the flex schedules and WAH people have in-times are not as important to me. If I am late and not expected for a meeting then I don't worry to much, of course I also put the time in since my days end earlier than most so if I have to stay then I do (meetings, project work, etc.). I also have work on my phone through an app so I can answer IIM's and email if need be, close team mates on projects have my direct cell too.
I work in a supplier to the mattress industry so excessive tardiness/absences are not tolerated.
Manufacturing in general is a bad industry to be in if you tend to be tardy or miss a lot of work; you generally won't last long whether you work on the production floor or in the office.
I'm on the plant leadership team but make sure that I am always a bit early so that I set a good example. I can tell people to be on time until I'm blue in the face but it's my actions that they are going to pay more attention to.
We handle customer service at our location so representatives need to be at work at 6AM for 1st shift and at 2:30 PM for 2nd shift. Managers are expected to be at work by 8AM, and other departments have their own start times. Hourly employees that work on the floor also are expected to be on time; it's an inconvenience to their co-workers when they are tardy/call off because then the person in that position from the prior shift is stuck staying over.
There are some industries that offer the core hours/flex hours though. Still, I think that making a habit of being late is not a good idea because it puts extra work on your co-workers and can give the appearance of a poor work ethic.
Oh... And does anyone monitor the corporate big wigs all day? These goofs out getting their 9 holes or out to various "meetings" aka. Hobnobbing on company time and doing god knows what else. Its funny, I don't see the same accountability applied to them ever.
I worry about being on time if I have a meeting or a deadline. Otherwise, I don't view it as a problem any more than people who expect me to answer work email after hours view that as a problem.
Speaking of "meetings". Don't you hate it when people are not ready to start at meeting at the scheduled time? If a meeting is for 10:00am, that does not mean you leave your desk at 10:00am and then wander to the meeting room 5 minutes later. Most time is wasted waiting for all the participants to get there.
For the first couple years I was held to the standard of being on time - but I was a new employee and non-exempt and therefore clocked in and out every day. But once I proved that I was always one to work my full 40 hours, and I had a good rapport with my boss, she no longer forced me to be on time. She knew if I got here 10 minutes late, I'd stay 10 minutes late.
Once I became an exempt employee it truly didn't matter what time I arrived - I came in, did my work, and went home whenever it was done (sometimes early, sometimes late).
In the new job with a new employer that I start next month I'll go back to being non-exempt, which means clocking in, which means arriving to work 5-10 minutes early so I can be there to clock in on time. My hope is that, much like my current job, once I show my strong work ethic, they won't care what time I clock in. We'll see...
The past few years I have noticed a lot of "What difference does it make as long as I get my work done." It has already been posted as a response a couple of times in this thread. It is part of the self entitled attitude these days and typically goes hand in hand with the "it is my cell phone and you can't tell me when I can be on it."
It all boils down to work ethic. There seems to be a lack of it lately, especially with those under the age of 25 but it seems the immaturity is lasting into their 30's more and more.
The day will come when they are still sitting at the same job wondering why the guy that used to the in the cube next to them that was always there banging the work out when they came dragging in a 8:30, has been promoted a couple of times to supervisor and then manager or now owns their own business. I have friends like that and they just can't figure out why they are getting passed over for promotions. All I can say is thanks for making it easy for us to kick your ass every day. lol
Some of us aren't trying to move into middle management. I'm definitely not.
Over the last 8-9 years I have noticed this change in the US workplace when it comes to application development. We're not shift workers and unless we're contractors, we're not paid by the hour. We have "capacity" and "velocity." Me being 15 minutes late one day isn't going to make more work for anyone else unless I'm needed for a production issue...and my entire team has my cell # anyway, so they'd just call my phone if I wasn't at my desk and they needed to talk to me. It has nothing to do with entitlement or laziness; we work hard and are very productive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humble and Kind
Now, let me get this straight. Other threads are talking that people are over worked and can't make a living. Then this thread comes up and people are fine with being late, passive, don't care, "I did what I had to do", etc. And in business we all know nothing every comes up spur of the moment.
I find that very interesting.
See above. We're not shift workers, we're not working the counter at McDonald's, we're not floor nurses or factory workers or customer service reps whose lateness or absence would create more work for their coworkers. We (IT people) work in knowledge...we are paid for our knowledge and our ability to apply said knowledge to solve specific problems. So yeah...if I'm a few minutes late one day, who cares? Most people wouldn't even notice because they're busy doing their own work. We all regularly pull between 40-50 hours each week....more if a project requires it. So I don't want to hear that we're lazy or "passive."
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