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However I agree that this program needs to end. Don't reform it, don't raise the quota, just end it. It's already done far too much damage to the US IT sector. These are not the best & brightest.
If you end it, then you will cause tremendous damage to the IT sector and the US economy,
- A lot of international students will not study in the US, because they can't get a job.
- American Universities will be lower ranked, because it has fewer international students and can't get foreign researchers.
- Companies that are dependent on H-1b visas will close down or outsource.
H1B's do back-breaking work? Really?
I work as a Machine Learning Engineer in the Bay Area and work with many H1B's...wouldn't characterize our work as back-breaking. Who are the H1B's that are doing those jobs?
You may not have much exposure outside of IT and cert salad but there are actual blue collar jobs with no academic degree filled by H1B and some of those expat contracts are lucrative and stipulate sponsorship.
Any numbers out on H4 employment and anticipated changes?
If you end it, then you will cause tremendous damage to the IT sector and the US economy,
- A lot of international students will not study in the US, because they can't get a job.
- American Universities will be lower ranked, because it has fewer international students and can't get foreign researchers.
- Companies that are dependent on H-1b visas will close down or outsource.
I don't buy any of this for a second.
Most people I know want to overhaul the H1B system, not completely eliminate it.
If you look at the companies that have the most H1B visa holders, 15 of the top 20 (and I think all of the top 5) are primarily outsourcing companies anyway.
If you end it, then you will cause tremendous damage to the IT sector and the US economy,
- A lot of international students will not study in the US, because they can't get a job.
- American Universities will be lower ranked, because it has fewer international students and can't get foreign researchers.
- Companies that are dependent on H-1b visas will close down or outsource.
What a bunch of baseless fearmongering.
We are issuing 600,000 - 700,000 student F1 visas annually. The H1B cap is 65,000 annually with an additional 20,000 for F1 to H1B conversions. Only a very small fraction of international students are here for an H1B. And aside from a small quota exception, international students have no leg up on anyone else. You qualify or you don't. You don't get bonus points if your degree is from an American university rather than a Indian university. We could end H1B entirely with no significant effect on F1 visas.
Nobody suggested ending it but rather limiting it to the original stated purposes - bringing in outside labor where domestic labor is truly insufficient. What needs to be ended is the bastardization of the process where it is used to bring in cheaper labor and also where it is used as a gateway to permanent residency.
If you end it, then you will cause tremendous damage to the IT sector and the US economy,
- A lot of international students will not study in the US, because they can't get a job.
- American Universities will be lower ranked, because it has fewer international students and can't get foreign researchers.
- Companies that are dependent on H-1b visas will close down or outsource.
Why do I care if we dont flood the market with subpar forign workers? Lagitimate top tier people will still be let in it will just have to be approved at a MUCH higher level (I would say a 2/3 majority of congress and only 200-300 a year at the most, basicly your enstines and the like).
Why would they be lower ranked, they can still maintain standards and if that results in a lower enrollment so be it, subsizidize the rest with the 90% taxes you take from mega corps.
So what if they close down, I am tired of buisness existing that should have went bankrupt decades ago due to having a poor buisenss model. Out sourcing will also soon be shut down, if they want to leave the country and stop doing buisness with the USA at all, fine.
This boils down to companies with poor buisness models that cant survive in a healthy market, most buisness in the USA today relys on a desperate work force. If the market became healthy and the boarders were closed, big buisness would loose their minds becuase people would not have to tolerate nonsense anymore.
Last edited by pittsflyer; 02-07-2018 at 11:49 AM..
If you end it, then you will cause tremendous damage to the IT sector and the US economy,
- A lot of international students will not study in the US, because they can't get a job.
- American Universities will be lower ranked, because it has fewer international students and can't get foreign researchers.
- Companies that are dependent on H-1b visas will close down or outsource.
Why do I care if we dont flood the market with subpar forign workers? Lagitimate top tier people will still be let in it will just have to be approved at a MUCH higher level (I would say a 2/3 majority of congress and only 200-300 a year at the most, basicly your enstines and the like).
Why would they be lower ranked, they can still maintain standards and if that results in a lower enrollment so be it, subsizidize the rest with the 90% taxes you take from mega corps.
So what if they close down, I am tired of buisness existing that should have went bankrupt decades ago due to having a poor buisenss model. Out sourcing will also soon be shut down, if they want to leave the country and stop doing buisness with the USA at all, fine.
This boils down to companies with poor buisness models that cant survive in a healthy market, most buisness in the USA today relys on a desperate work force. If the market became healthy and the boarders were closed, big buisness would loose their minds becuase people would not have to tolerate nonsense anymore.
The beef is we should be educating/training/hiring our own citizens first before we open the borders.
If you end it, then you will cause tremendous damage to the IT sector and the US economy,
- A lot of international students will not study in the US, because they can't get a job.
- American Universities will be lower ranked, because it has fewer international students and can't get foreign researchers.
- Companies that are dependent on H-1b visas will close down or outsource.
Absolutely not true. Yes, there will be a 4-year lag between the time it's ended and the time we start producing STEM specialists domestically in anything resembling reasonable numbers. However, the beautiful thing about a lot of areas within STEM (particularly on the tech side) is that people can be quickly ramped up in a matter of months to at least be capable with proper corporate training. The issue is corporations aren't willing to provide that anymore.
But if you were to tell them that the H1b's they have now are the last one's they're going to get, and they aren't going to get anymore, you can bet your ass that most of them (the well-run ones, at any rate) would very quickly pivot to ensure that they get a smooth transition out of visa-land.
Your statement about lowering the rankings of universities is not only bizarre and inaccurate, but completely misplaced. People don't come to colleges here on H1b visas.
And - if we're being entirely honest - most of these H1b's that are being brought over with their "Master's Degrees") are bordering on functionally incompetent. Their skillset is 2 steps above a pay-by-mail degree mill.
The only truthful statement you made was that companies dependent on H1b visas will "close down" - although that, too is incorrect. Companies like Tata will simply have to focus their efforts elsewhere. And really, the well-being of a niche industry that was formed to LITERALLY act as locusts against the American worker shouldn't even be a consideration.
I mean, quite literally, I just had a conversation about this in relation to parenting about a week ago. I was asked if I'd push for my kid to follow in my footsteps and enter this industry, and I emphatically said no f'ing way would I direct my kid into this lifestyle. Think about that for a moment - a guy who makes about half a million dollars a year when it's all said and done stating that he wouldn't want his kid to enter the same industry because of how uncertain that kid's future would be - and that's 100% because of the invasion of foreign workers and bad corporate citizenship. That's a real problem.
If you end it, then you will cause tremendous damage to the IT sector and the US economy,
- A lot of international students will not study in the US, because they can't get a job.
- American Universities will be lower ranked, because it has fewer international students and can't get foreign researchers.
- Companies that are dependent on H-1b visas will close down or outsource.
Then end it, because we sure as heck aren't profiting off of it anyway, only the Zuckerbergs and other Silly-con Valley Robber Baron executives.
Most people I know want to overhaul the H1B system, not completely eliminate it.
If you look at the companies that have the most H1B visa holders, 15 of the top 20 (and I think all of the top 5) are primarily outsourcing companies anyway.
That's the issue in and of itself. The companies like Disney and SCE use them to get around the H1B laws as a loophole so they can make Americans train their H1B replacements. The Tatas and stuff are the lifeblood, in part, of the outsourcing operation. Cut them off and the problem is greatly reduced.
However, to finish the job, I'd end the H1B program and replace all the H1B visa per year counts with green card counts. That will allow people to come and have more freedom, rather than be an H1B indentured servant. If there really is a shortage, they will use the greed cards instead. If they just wanted cheap labor abusable H1Bs, then I guess it sucks to be the CEOs.
And yes, some jerks will leave if we do this, but as they are just using the H1B process to replace Americans with Indians via a process called "knowledge transfer" and then shift the whole operation overseas once enough Indians are on board the staff, the result would be the same if you kept the H1B program,only worse long term.
If you leave H1B in place, I promise you that IT will suffer the same fate as manufacturing. And then the robber barons will shift to other fields with the H1Bs, knowing they got away with it in ruining the IT sector.
So we have to cut them off NOW!
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