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Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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In the interest of equity, there has been a recent push by corporations and especially public agencies to eliminate the degree requirement from many jobs. If the person promoted is able to do the work it really doesn't matter whether she has a degree, unless the formal job description requires it and there is no exception for substituting experience.
Here where I work, HR has dropped the degree requirement for my entry level position. Of course since then the people I have hired all had a degree anyway. We also have a promotional option, I can promote someone not meeting all of the requirements as a "development opportunity" and train them.
In the interest of equity, there has been a recent push by corporations and especially public agencies to eliminate the degree requirement from many jobs. If the person promoted is able to do the work it really doesn't matter whether she has a degree, unless the formal job description requires it and there is no exception for substituting experience.
Here where I work, HR has dropped the degree requirement for my entry level position. Of course since then the people I have hired all had a degree anyway. We also have a promotional option, I can promote someone not meeting all of the requirements as a "development opportunity" and train them.
They pretty much did that for all our jobs. Even engineer jobs no longer "require" a degree. It's really just a farce. If I'm hiring an engineer, and out of the hundred or so applications, one doesn't have a degree, that one isn't even getting to the initial review state. Straight into the round file.
They pretty much did that for all our jobs. Even engineer jobs no longer "require" a degree. It's really just a farce. If I'm hiring an engineer, and out of the hundred or so applications, one doesn't have a degree, that one isn't even getting to the initial review state. Straight into the round file.
What a ridiculous policy. I don't want to fly in an airplane or drive a car that was engineered by people who just have a HS diploma.
They pretty much did that for all our jobs. Even engineer jobs no longer "require" a degree. It's really just a farce. If I'm hiring an engineer, and out of the hundred or so applications, one doesn't have a degree, that one isn't even getting to the initial review state. Straight into the round file.
No it's not. I've been in the engineering industry for over ten years now. Some of the best engineers I've worked with either had only an Associate's, or no degree at all, but were just extremely bright, great at math, logical thinkers, problem solvers, who worked their way up through the years. Aside from entry-level engineering positions, the degree hardly matters down the road, but rather, positions are very specific in terms of skills and experience required.
The degree makes it much easier to get a PE license... But most engineering firms don't have a bunch of engineers with PE licenses. Only need a handful.
I'd say probably a good 25% of electrical and mechanical "engineers" I've worked with did not have a Bachelor's degree. Some companies give them the title of "designer" to make the distinction. They do the exact same work the "engineers" do. Many companies just call them all "engineers."
I have my BSEE, but I started my engineering career before I graduated -- a year before -- as a CAD tech. I worked my way up the ladder over the years, to eventually become "engineer." The degree was a nice addition to my resume... that more often than not just got glanced over. The skills and experience, as well as any sort of license and certification, are pretty much all that hiring managers and recruiters have cared about. This includes having worked in the utility engineering industry, as well as federal government contract work.
What a ridiculous policy. I don't want to fly in an airplane or drive a car that was engineered by people who just have a HS diploma.
Why not? If the engineer with the HS diploma has 30 years of experience designing airplane engines, calculating wind resistances, etc., you'd rather a pimple-faced 25 year old with a year or two of experience do it just because he got a degree?
In the end, all work gets reviewed, stamped by a licensed PE, and then reviewed again... Likely, somewhere in this process, at least one of these reviewers is going to have a Bachelor's (often times the one who stamps/seals the work, only because it's MUCH easier to get a PE license with a BS degree) but chances any other design and/or review work is done by someone with no degree at all, or maybe an Associate's, or maybe several certifications.
If it isn’t a position that requires a CPA license, she could very well be a highly competent bookkeeper who deserved her promotion, or they’re training her concurrently with her education. Don’t make any assumptions, it’s not your business to worry about her or anyone else there. A degree isn’t everything, and even if it is nepotism that got her that job what good is it to bring it up?
The only one who gets hurt by this line of inquiry is you. Keep your head down and move on with polite conversation and NO speculation.
Until pay scale comes up. Then everyone talks about "fairness" LMAO
Until pay scale comes up. Then everyone talks about "fairness" LMAO
Which is why... Don't tell your whole life story to your coworkers. Nothing good comes out of that. If one of the workers doesn't have a degree, no one outside of SOME managers need to know this. It's none of anyone's business. But if said person just voluntarily blurts out this info, don't be surprised at the ensuing backlash and behind-the-back badmouthing.
No it's not. I've been in the engineering industry for over ten years now. Some of the best engineers I've worked with either had only an Associate's, or no degree at all, but were just extremely bright, great at math, logical thinkers, problem solvers, who worked their way up through the years. Aside from entry-level engineering positions, the degree hardly matters down the road, but rather, positions are very specific in terms of skills and experience required.
The degree makes it much easier to get a PE license... But most engineering firms don't have a bunch of engineers with PE licenses. Only need a handful.
I'd say probably a good 25% of electrical and mechanical "engineers" I've worked with did not have a Bachelor's degree. Some companies give them the title of "designer" to make the distinction. They do the exact same work the "engineers" do. Many companies just call them all "engineers."
I have my BSEE, but I started my engineering career before I graduated -- a year before -- as a CAD tech. I worked my way up the ladder over the years, to eventually become "engineer." The degree was a nice addition to my resume... that more often than not just got glanced over. The skills and experience, as well as any sort of license and certification, are pretty much all that hiring managers and recruiters have cared about. This includes having worked in the utility engineering industry, as well as federal government contract work.
With all due respect, sheer insanity in 2024
When I started our 35 years ago, we had non-degreed Engineers…..a couple of really good ones, but most were just in those positions because they had been there a long time. Those guys retired, and we replaced them with WAY more consistent degreed Engineers.
When I started our 35 years ago, we had non-degreed Engineers…..a couple of really good ones, but most were just in those positions because they had been there a long time. Those guys retired, and we replaced them with WAY more consistent degreed Engineers.
A lot of them are older folks who retired from some related job. No reason why someone who worked as a lineman for 20 years can't become a distribution engineer, if he/she made sure to learn why things are designed the way they are rather than just blindly build off prints without trying to understand.
I've seen many others simply start off as CAD Techs (or similar) and work those types of positions for years, slowly learning the ropes, and eventually becoming some pretty solid designers/engineers.
Personally, I think an A.S. in Engineering Technology is more than sufficient for most engineering jobs. A good half of the Bachelor's Degree portion of studies is unrelated junk. At the A.S. level, one still completes a few Calc and Physics classes, along with relevant engineering coursework.
I agree that some form of education should be required (hence the A.S.) as there is a pretty steep learning curve in most engineering jobs. But from my experience, the Bachelor's degree needs to be shaved down to eliminate a lot of the fluff.
For what it's worth, none of the recent jobs I've had hire new engineering grads with no experience. But they will hire non-degreed folks with experience (generally 8+ years in the industry.) The fresh graduate with no experience knows absolutely nothing other than what he was forced to study to pass an exam. They have to start from the bottom, doing redundant work like Data Entry, and slowly work their way into an engineering role. Or start off at some small company doing small jobs that larger, profitable companies outsource or pass up on. I did the latter for a few years. The pay and benefits were awful, but I got the experience I needed to move forward with my career a few years later.
Come to think of it, I can't recall the last time I was asked about my degree by a prospect employer beyond my first entry-level job. This includes having worked for the federal government. The questions usually revolve around certifications and licensing.
Last edited by Arcenal813; 04-03-2024 at 11:46 AM..
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