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I started with 3 weeks vacation at my current job and took 2.5 weeks off the following year. I always take 2 weeks off every year. I work for a large corporation.
Its such a silly policy I'm surprised its even legal. I'd file a lawsuit if favoritism went on where certain people who were buddy buddy were using 200-300 hours and I got punished for using 150. Seems like the potential for favoritism is definitely there. The legal team at these companies isn't doing their job.
Just wondering if anybody else works for a company with an "Unlimited PTO" policy, and if you are given specific details about company expectations, or how much time you usually take off under it.
I've been with my current company for 4 years now, and one of the perks they offer is an Unlimited PTO policy. You need to request time off still, but there's so set amount of what is appropriate. The only guidelines are "as long as the work gets done"
I've asked a few times about any specific expectations that management has, but have only been told that all that matters is that work doesn't suffer, and special permission is needed for vacations longer than 2 weeks at a time.
So far this year I've taken one 2 week vacation, and have a 1 week vacation this summer and a 2 week vacation this fall requested and approved. Today I was taken aside and told that while the time off was approved and was fine for this year, that in the future I needed to scale back the time off I take. I asked again if there was a specific expectation and was told no, but 5 weeks was too long and unfair to other employees.
I asked if work had suffered on any of my previous vacations and was told that it had not.
Now I just feel really awkward. The main point of the unlimited PTO policy (as stated in the employee handbook) is that neither employees nor management need to keep track of days off; we just keep track of deliverables and projects released. It seems clear that contrary to what the employee handbook says, management has some sort of idea of how much time off people should take, but no matter how many times I ask I always get the same answer; there is no limit it all comes down to work completed.
Since it isn't (publicly) tracked I can't easily monitor how much time off other employees take.
I don't want to stay on management's bad side, but I have no clue how far to scale back vacation time next year. We already have one 2 week vacation planned; do I make that my only one? Add a second, 1 week vacation and stop at 3 weeks total? In theory I love the idea of unlimited PTO, but it feels like my company does have a limit, they just won't state it.
"Unlimited PTO" is a joke. The companies that are doing this won't really begin to bring the hammer down for a few years, because the people that still recall how real, guaranteed vacation time works won't put up with it. But once that memory fades, the company will begin pushing back, just like you experienced.
One of the immediate results in our case was being forced to work the week of Christmas. Previously vacation had to be taken by the end of the year, so everyone was generally out at the same time. Now employees are forced to work that week rather than being at home with their families. Managers in companies with "unlimited PTO" have total power, not like when you had GUARANTEED vacation benefits. And the company tries to spin this as a "perk".
"Unlimited PTO" is ALL in the corporation's favor in the long run. This is all about taking away another of our precious benefits. From pushing more and more of the health care costs onto employees, dumping pension programs, and now chipping away at vacation benefits, we are regressing steadily every year.
All the while employees and the average worker do not seem to care that they are getting pushed into the underclass.
Someone upthread already mentioned this, but "unlimited" PTO is an advantage to the employer because you don't accrue days that they end up paying you for when you leave.
But whether vacation approval is handled even-handedly is a separate issue because there are plenty of people who do have standard PTO policies where they accrue time but then still don't get their vacation requests approved while others do. That's not directly related to the unlimited part.
And in this case, OP's leave was approved but then they were informed that they were the one perceived to be abusing the policy. So yeah, no one really thinks "unlimited" means truly unlimited, and it isn't always easy to know exactly where the line is. But OP now knows that the line is somewhere before 5 weeks in increments of 2 weeks, 1 week and 2 weeks.
Someone upthread already mentioned this, but "unlimited" PTO is an advantage to the employer because you don't accrue days that they end up paying you for when you leave.
But whether vacation approval is handled even-handedly is a separate issue because there are plenty of people who do have standard PTO policies where they accrue time but then still don't get their vacation requests approved while others do. That's not directly related to the unlimited part.
And in this case, OP's leave was approved but then they were informed that they were the one perceived to be abusing the policy. So yeah, no one really thinks "unlimited" means truly unlimited, and it isn't always easy to know exactly where the line is. But OP now knows that the line is somewhere before 5 weeks in increments of 2 weeks, 1 week and 2 weeks.
Right. In my case I don't necessarily feel that it's being applied unfairly; just trying to crowd source an idea of what is typically appropriate, since my company won't give any specifics. It was moreso that I felt a little blindsided by the remark; vacation is important to me and I asked my direct supervisor and higher management several times for clarification on our company policy. I put in all my vacation requests early in the year and they were all approved. My last vacation was in February (a two-weeker) and my next vacation is scheduled in August (one week)
With all of that the conversation just sort of came out of the blue. So I now know that 5 weeks is considered excessive, which is fine, I'll work with that when I schedule vacations in the future. But I still don't know what is considered acceptable, and can't get that answer from my company. We already have flights booked for a two week international trip next April, so I'll keep that, and I'll plan on just taking one more one week vacation, and then maybe toss in a few 1/2 days around weekends, but keep it under 4 weeks (20 days) and see how that goes over.
Our two week trip in November is a trans-atlantic cruise, so I'll talk to management about offering to be online for a half-day most days we're on the cruise, as long as we have internet. That way my 5 weeks will be more like 4 weeks this year
So I now know that 5 weeks is considered excessive, which is fine, I'll work with that when I schedule vacations in the future. But I still don't know what is considered acceptable, and can't get that answer from my company. We already have flights booked for a two week international trip next April, so I'll keep that, and I'll plan on just taking one more one week vacation, and then maybe toss in a few 1/2 days around weekends, but keep it under 4 weeks (20 days) and see how that goes over.
I don't think that's the take away here. I don't think the issue was 5 weeks total off work, but rather the multiple long periods you were away. You could probably take 6 weeks off work in increments of 1-3 days and nobody would bat an eye, but the long 1 and 2 week absences likely place a burden on the rest of your department to pick up the slack (or on other departments or customers, who have to wait for you to return).
It was my immediate supervisor. I am also a 100% remote employee, so there is no actual "face time" notion, although regular meetings serve as a bit of a surrogate for face time.
I know that it's not actually unlimited unlimited; it's just moreso, if a company refuses to actually say what is appropriate/expected and all I have to go off of is being told 5 weeks is too much, how much should I pull back?
I wonder if you were not remote, would they still be giving this much trouble?
I'm not discrediting remote workers, it is just hard to really engage how much time they are 'really' working ... I work at home sometimes ... and I always get my work done but admittedly there have been times I stepped away from my desk for longer than I should have to do something I wanted to do (like shop or go to the gym)
Today I was taken aside and told that while the time off was approved and was fine for this year, that in the future I needed to scale back the time off I take. I asked again if there was a specific expectation and was told no, but 5 weeks was too long and unfair to other employees.
This is just like Office Space with the 37 pieces of flair. If they want people to wear more than 15 pieces of flair or take less than 5 weeks, they should just make that the policy. Anyway OP, if you have F-U money, just keep doing what you've been doing, especially if you are good performer.
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This is just like Office Space with the 37 pieces of flair. If they want people to wear more than 15 pieces of flair or take less than 5 weeks, they should just make that the policy. Anyway OP, if you have F-U money, just keep doing what you've been doing, especially if you are good performer.
