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When it gets down to it, my employer only cares about productivity. The person who works 6 quality hours can easily be more valuable than the 8 hour worker who socializes a lot at the office, goofs off on the internet while at the desk, takes long breaks outside of the office, etc.
I give my employer quality hours every day. That is why me having kids and everything that goes along with it has never been an issue for me. My direct report understands that I am a professional and clearly have the aptitude to do the job and the work ethic.
We working moms get hit from both sides and it sucks. We are chided for not staying at home on the one hand and then on the other, we're derided by cranky colleagues for having to honor parental responsibilities.
The solution is to offer the ability to work remotely to more people. It's outmoded and dumb to have people chained to a damn desk anyway. Many jobs can easily be done at home. Again, the bottom line is productivity and that's affected when people use leave time (and thereby not work) to handle legitimate things such as a sick child, etc. etc.
Don't worry riaelise, I'm sure they would've talked behind your back, rather than to your face. ;-)
As do many working dads unfortunately. Men are expected to always be available, to not have any "personal issues" and are derided not only by cranky colleagues but also by management when there are parental responsibilities.
Agreed. My husband is a working dad. Working parents in general. Just can't win!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassybluesy
Don't worry riaelise, I'm sure they would've talked behind your back, rather than to your face. ;-)
Yep, because most people don't have the balls enough to ever say anything to my face. Most are passive aggressive and vent their thoughts online in some form or another.
Somewhere in this thread someone gave an example of a mother pumping for 30 minutes every 2.5 hours. That has got to be waaaay out of the norm. Did any of you who pumped at work take that much time? I was way on the other side - 5 mins max was needed to pump or feed. It barely made a blip in my day. When my first baby was born I actually took her to work with me and had her in a pack n play in my office. It was my boss' idea. He was a gem.
If people have young kids and take that responsibility seriously, they are going to miss more work than most other people who don't have kids. For that reason, if I knew that a woman had at least one very young child and was a single parent, I would not hire her unless she lived with her mother who agreed to be a full-time babysitter. (This was about 30 years ago, btw, when I was an office manager responsible for hiring secretarial staff, and back then, all the secretarial applicants I interviewed were women.)
I did feel bad about that, but I believed then (as I believe now) that women should not have kids unless they are married and can afford to have children without both spouses having to work 40 or more hours a week. Yes, that is a very old-fashioned attitude, I know, and I also know that life doesn't always turn out the way people expect it to even when they plan well, but nevertheless, it is what I believe.
[And, to emphasize, I know that I am in the minority with this opinion! The older I get, the more it seems that most of my opinions these days are as antiquated as manual typewriters!]
Agreed. Kids take time, but if the person is unduly burdening their colleagues, they need to rethink whether they should remain employed.
Agreed. Kids take time, but if the person is unduly burdening their colleagues, they need to rethink whether they should remain employed.
Yeah and so should the people who waste hours a day on smoke breaks. Shouldn't they think about whether they should remain employed when they unduly burden their co-workers by being away from their desks for extended periods of time multiple times a day?
The fact that some people complain about parents not pulling their weight doesn't make it automatically true and also doesn't mean that parents are the only ones doing it.
Yeah and so should the people who waste hours a day on smoke breaks. Shouldn't they think about whether they should remain employed when they unduly burden their co-workers by being away from their desks for extended periods of time multiple times a day?
The fact that some people complain about parents not pulling their weight doesn't make it automatically true and also doesn't mean that parents are the only ones doing it.
Throw in the people who can't seem to stay off their phones, playing games or checking social media every ten minutes. Personally I think they probably cost the employer far more lost time and productivity than the parent who runs late or calls out sick from time to time.
Yeah and so should the people who waste hours a day on smoke breaks. Shouldn't they think about whether they should remain employed when they unduly burden their co-workers by being away from their desks for extended periods of time multiple times a day?
The fact that some people complain about parents not pulling their weight doesn't make it automatically true and also doesn't mean that parents are the only ones doing it.
Hey, you know what? In the US, workers are entitled to 15 minute breaks per 4 hrs of work. It's the law.
Who's letting an employee burn up HOURS of work hours? You have a legit gripe if someone is truly spending HOURS smoking. And I say that as a smoker. But I'm not spending HOURS doing so.
Hey, you know what? In the US, workers are entitled to 15 minute breaks per 4 hrs of work. It's the law.
Who's letting an employee burn up HOURS of work hours? You have a legit gripe if someone is truly spending HOURS smoking. And I say that as a smoker. But I'm not spending HOURS doing so.
I work at a 100% smoke free workplace so it's no longer an issue. But in the past, I've worked with smokers who left every 90 minutes or so to smoke. It was a high rise building, so by the time the got down the elevator, outside to the designated area to smoke and chat, and then get back to their desk, it was at least 15 minutes, a whole lot more frequently than once every 4 hours.
Not to mention that most people I work with are salaried, not hourly, and no, "US workers are not entitled to 15 minute breaks per 4 hours of work." It's not the law in a lot of places, and there are lots of exclusions in others.
The point is that EVERYONE does things besides work for 8 hours straight, not just parents. Yet parents seem to be the ones that get hated on, and threads like this created about.
There's a woman I work with now who comes in late at least once a week, running later on the days when the boss isn't around of course (half an hour to one hour on some days), and whenever she gets new leave time at the beginning of each month, she will take all of it within that month. I worked on a project with her recently as a quasi-supervisor but I'm not really her boss, and I asked her why she was out so much. Her response was "I have kids. You're single, so that is why you can save your leave."
All of her kids are in school and she only has three. The excuses are always along the lines of "Robert missed the bus this morning, so I'm running late", "John has soccer practice this afternoon so I need to take off," etc.
This same woman also chats on her phone for much of the day and has tried to pawn off her work on me. I think she's just lazy, but I have encountered the "I have kids" excuse from other women at jobs in the past.
If it's not your employee - then it's clearly not your business. I would have told you to go pound sand had you asked me that question.
If it's impacting YOUR work - then complain to your supervisor.
Goodness - here in the 21st century - Dad's also miss work now and again for their kids.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherTouchOfWhimsy
I honestly don't know how working parents manage to do it without flexible jobs
So yeah, I'd assume it's legit. Kids, even kids in school, are not known for getting sick at convenient times, and parents do generally try to attend their children's class events and sports games and class plays. "Only" three kids, OMG. I often felt like a chicken with no head and I only have two! One more increases the work exponentially.
Unfortunately, if both parents (if there are both parents) are working full-time jobs with no flexibility, then they need to make a choice. Someone needs to be available for the hundreds of things that come up with children. Whether that means one of them (probably mom in this situation, based on the mom being the one who is running late) needs to get a more flexible job or one of them needs to stay home or they need to talk to their bosses about managing their hours so one can go in earlier and take the kids to afternoon activities while the other goes in later and deals with morning activities or whatever. If it's negatively impacting the office, then the mom needs to decide what she's going to do to fix the problem... if she can't, then it's up to the boss to decide what he or she is going to do to fix the problem.
I'm assuming, of course, that it is an actual problem and not that you're just complaining for no reason. People can negotiate whatever they want to with their bosses, of course. So maybe she's already talked to the boss and has gotten the okay for flex time. Even making more money... some people are better negotiators than others. If it's not a problem for the company and for the boss, then there's no issue. If she's increasing your workload due to her habits, then you should talk to the boss about it and see what his/her suggestions might be for evening things up in that respect.
I thank God every day that I moved to a company who had flexible hours. Didn't pay as well as the first company but with a young son - that 'flex time' and 'work from home' options meant EVERYTHING.
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