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Why is that relevant to the discussion? Lots of ageism in the job market.
And what is your solution to the catch-22?
Because it sounds like you’re completely out of touch with the job market for new grads yet you speak as if you know everything about it....that’s why it’s relevant.
There is no catch-22 plenty of new grads with no corporate experience or a few summer internships are getting jobs. I got a corporate role with only an internship in 2012 and that was the heart of the so called “non-hiring” phase of our economy. So did literally everyone I knew from grad-school and an internship was more than most others had. At Labs I worked on a data science team with 10 other people and 4 of them were under 25 and it was their first “real” job.
Pipe fitter
No degree required. must successfully finish apprenticeship
Zero student loans
Some travel required
I believe that's for a UNION pipe fitter.
A friend of my daughter is an apprentice union pipe fitter working on the construction of the new Raiders Stadium in Las Vegas - for example, running all the stainless steel lines to serve beverages at the various snack stands in the stadium.
The only downside I can tell is they typically start work VERY early in the morning. She'll be making between $200K and $300K once she (yes - she) is a journeyman. At least that is what she tells says.
Now I realize that you're not going to change your mind, so I'm answering for all those out there who might read this thread and be confused by your doom and gloom.
The difference between that poster and a broken clock is at least a broken clock is correct twice per day.
-High pay
-Flexible hours and/or the possibility of remote work (ideally both)
I'm not sure what your undergraduate degree is in, but I get the idea it is not in a hard science. If I'm correct, the following suggestion won't be that useful - but for others reading this thread in the future, Patent Law might be a fit. There are two paths:
Patent Attorney <== requires a JD and a hard science undergraduate degree or curriculum
Patent Agent <== does not require any advanced degree but does require a hard science undergraduate degree or curriculum.
In contrast to most other types of law, patent law works very well from a geographically remote location, and once you've passed the bar, offers a very flexible work schedule. It has to do with what most patent attorneys actually do: write patent applications and shepherd them through the USPTO until the patents are granted. This is called patent prosecution.
Here's what it actually entails in the metaphorical 9-to-5 work day - simplified and exaggerated for effect. The patent attorney or patent agent reads a client's written articulation of the invention (called an Invention Disclosure) and spends some time studying the general area of the invention to become literate. He interviews by telephone the inventor and asks a bunch of questions about the invention and about who the inventor has told about it (e.g., presented papers at conferences).
Then the attorney or agent puts on headphones and goes to work: researching patents and applications already in existence that the inventor didn't know about, and researching technical papers already published that might indicate the invention has already been invented by someone else, etc. Then the attorney or agent writes the patent application itself - frequently massive run-on sentences that would make our high-school English teachers cringe. Then send it off to the US Patent & Trademark office --
-- and then start over again.
All of this can be done remotely with a high speed internet connection and with flexible work hours.
*************
The following degrees count:
Computer Science (Must be from an accredited program)
Engineering:
Aeronautical engineering
Agricultural engineering
Biomedical engineering
Ceramic engineering
Chemical engineering
Civil engineering
Computer engineering
Electrical engineering
Electrochemical engineering
Engineering physics
General engineering
Geological engineering
Industrial engineering
Mechanical engineering
Metallurgical engineering
Mining engineering
Nuclear engineering
Petroleum engineering
Science:
Biology
Biochemistry
Botany
General chemistry
Microbiology
Molecular biology
Organic chemistry
Pharmacology
Physics
Technology:
Electronics technology
Food technology
Marine technology
Textile technology
If you don't have an undergraduate degree in the above, you can still qualify if you have:
24 hrs physics (only physics courses for physics majors will be admitted), or …
8 hrs chemistry or 8 hrs physics (must be sequential and include a lab) + 24 hrs of biology, botany, microbiology or molecular biology (only courses for science or engineering majors will be accepted), or …
30 hrs of chemistry (only chemistry courses for chemistry majors will be accepted), or …
8 hrs of chemistry or 8 hrs of physics (must be sequential and include a lab) + 32 hrs of chemistry, physics, biology, botany, microbiology, molecular biology and engineering (only courses for science or engineering majors will be accepted).
If you don't have the above, you can still qualify - maybe - if you have passed the Fundamentals of Engineering (FE) test. The FE test is a test of engineering fundamentals and is developed and administered by a State Board of Engineering Examiners in each State or comparable jurisdiction.
They discontinued the program that gave PhD students a full ride. I've read that the number of PhD's issued surpassed the number of open jobs in recent years and now there's a small surplus. Not as bad as other PhD areas, where the surplus is flat out ridiculous.
When I started my MBA years ago (and in my 30's with considerable work experience) there was an initial Q&A with the dean during the kickoff. Someone in their early 20's asked "will getting this MBA get me to be a CEO" which I found amusing.
I agree with MidValleyDad's appraisal. It's a tool and shows demonstrated learning that might fill in gaps.
It might open some doors, and prevent the closing of others (if it's a prerequisite for a job) but in itself doesn't do anything.
For "high pay" and "flexible hours and/or the possibility of remote work" I'd recommend a MSc in Computer Science.
Of course, you'd need an appropriate undergrad, test scores and experience to even get into such a program, but OP asked.
I agree. I have that MSc in Computer Science. Just know that it is very difficult to earn. The admission can be surprisingly easy for some online programs. But once in the program, the reality check of hard courses can easily overwhelm unprepared, older graduate students who have been away from college for awhile.
Before embarking on an MSc in Computer Science, for someone who did not get an undergraduate recently in that major, then I would recommend getting a quick associate's degree in computer science to get the basic background. For a hyper-motivated adult, it should only take about a year-and-a-half. Then after that the online master's is far more realistic.
These two courses often drive people out of the computer science major - just as an fyi. It has a reputation of requireing 15-20 hours per week for just one class. If taken with other classes it can get overwhelming. Hence - be prepared for the rigor of any master's program of choice - especially computer science.
There is no catch-22 because your statement is simply not true. Thousands of new grads, from both college and high school get jobs every year.
Yeah, they're called Mcjobs and sales jobs.
Those are the only jobs that hire with no experience.
Quote:
I have openings right now that I can't fill because people won't apply for them.
Where?
What kind of jobs? Show me the openings you cannot fill because people won't apply for them. Links please.
Quote:
Now I realize that you're not going to change your mind, so I'm answering for all those out there who might read this thread and be confused by your doom and gloom.
You didn't answer the question, all you did was dismiss it blithely.
Because it sounds like you’re completely out of touch with the job market for new grads yet you speak as if you know everything about it....that’s why it’s relevant.
I'm a career changer.
After I got new education and skills, I attempted to find jobs, only to be told that those jobs require experience, and nothing in my old field counted as experience. So I'm treated as having zero experience.
In addition, every single career job posting requires experience.
Quote:
There is no catch-22 plenty of new grads with no corporate experience or a few summer internships are getting jobs
You must be talking about another country or planet. In the USA, there is a catch-22.
Quote:
I got a corporate role with only an internship in 2012 and that was the heart of the so called “non-hiring” phase of our economy. So did literally everyone I knew from grad-school and an internship was more than most others had. At Labs I worked on a data science team with 10 other people and 4 of them were under 25 and it was their first “real” job.
Those are the only jobs that hire with no experience.
Where?
What kind of jobs? Show me the openings you cannot fill because people won't apply for them. Links please.
You didn't answer the question, all you did was dismiss it blithely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsell
I'm a career changer.
After I got new education and skills, I attempted to find jobs, only to be told that those jobs require experience, and nothing in my old field counted as experience. So I'm treated as having zero experience.
In addition, every single career job posting requires experience.
You must be talking about another country or planet. In the USA, there is a catch-22.
OK so you got lucky.
You keep spouting this nonsense and you are completely wrong.
Most professional fields (Accounting, Law, Medicine, Engineering, etc.) hire people with no experience at all for entry level positions.
Do you not understand anything about the job market in professional fields, or do you just enjoy spouting off false information?
You keep spouting this nonsense and you are completely wrong.
Most professional fields (Accounting
BS. I attempted a career change into accounting. Got a new degree with 4.0 + CPA. Six tons of rejections because I have no experience in accounting.
So stop lying about how good the job market is in accounting. You have no clue what's going on since you're ensconced in a long term job position. You haven't tried to find a job lately in accounting and even if you did, you have experience.
Quote:
Law,
The law field is oversaturated with JD's. You clearly haven't read the scamblogs.
Quote:
Medicine,
Medicine has internships (IF one can get them) - but it is oversaturated with MD's.
Quote:
Engineering
MAYBE software development. You could talk me into that as having some entry level jobs that require no experience. But outside of that, every single engineering job out there has experience requirements. I'm connected with lots of engineers who are older and can't find work - age discrimination is epidemic in engineering.
So this is the message I'm getting from you: You have no solution to the catch-22 except to look down on others and do ad hominem attacks.
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