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The higher up is my manager's manager. Isn't it because i rated myself All Perfect for everything and my manager requested his manager to be in the meeting so that he could go over them with me in front of him to clarify why i rated myself Excellent and if i exaggerated anything?
You're expecting random strangers on the internet to read minds here in knowing the purpose of your company's performance reviews and the meaning of your meeting. In reality, no one knows except your company/boss.
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Originally Posted by brakleu
Yeah I rated myself as Excellent which is maximum for everything and also in my notes I said I am saving money for the company by doing various tasks and activities, which is an exaggeration.
so could it be my manager invited his manager to be there as a witness to see my responses?
Then you'd better be starting to come up with some good explanations for why you did that. Might be a better use of your time than all this speculation. A piece of advice: if you're going to fudge it to make yourself look better/meet qualifications you maybe don't quite meet, you'd better be able to talk a good game to explain it, in a way that if they don't buy it, it just looks like you were mistaken rather than outright lying.
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Originally Posted by Toxic Waltz
Those self assessments are a joke. Always give yourself the best rating, don't do their job for them, if they want to find your faults they can look for them themselves. I always give myself top ratings and for the description I just cut and past the skill description itself in as my elaboration. Sometimes that will be brought up in my evaluation, at which point I explain that the one time I gave an employer an appraisal that honestly evaluated my weaknesses they used all those points word for word against me when explaining to me why I wasn't getting a raise that year. So I stopped doing it. It usually gets a chuckle, and I always get my raise.
Seriously. Why do employers do this? If I'm going to rate myself, why do I have a boss? Who's not going to give themself top ratings, knowing that if they give anything less, the question they'll be asked is "so, why are you deliberately not doing a good job?"
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Originally Posted by fleetiebelle
Do you think calling your manager out in front of a higher-up is going to get you better results, or make you appear adversarial? Like with any negotiation, people are going to be more willing to listen to "here's what I'd like to see, how can we make that happen?" vs. "You're bad at your job and here's why"
Yup. Nobody likes it when you throw someone else under the bus, even if it's deserved.
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Originally Posted by brakleu
what would happen if i say those things?
Try and find out, I guess. If you think your manager doesn't like you now, wait until after you appear to be blaming them for your shortcomings, and doing so publicly, to their boss. It won't win you points with the higher manager, either.
Last edited by PJSaturn; 04-02-2023 at 06:11 PM..
Reason: Personal attack.
If my manager is only talking about my weaknesses and bring up negativity mostly about me in front of his manager, i could get angry and say things like "i didnt get any support from him unlike the previous managers before him, there was no scheduled 1 on 1 meetings to bring up any issues with me unlike the previous managers i had (in the same company), so there was no support from him to correct up any issues.
And also I think most likely i am the lowest paid person in the company but thats ok. I am content. and i have been taking on extra task and responsibility and getting good feedback from other people.
Also I heard from couple of people in the team (Jack and Allan) that he is not happy being our manager, so i can bring this up as well and say because obviously he is not happy as being our manager this contributes to seeing some people in a negative light, like me."
Can I say those things?
You can say whatever you wish, but I don't believe that scenario is going to take place. Here's why, your manager who you report to needs to look good to his boss. His job is to manage the direct reports and not trouble his boss with the details. Him allowing a situation of an employee which is a problem reflects on him, and if anything, he would be hiding that from his boss. If you are a poor performer in the opinion of your manager he would be taking immediate action on this. He wouldn't allow things to progress to the point his own boss is aware of it, because it makes it look like your manager isn't do his job. His job is to manage his group. If he wanted to fire you, he would say to his boss something like "we need to replace someone, and I'm taking care of it". His boss would say fine, unless he has been hiring and firing people for the same role over a short period of time. Or a concern if a schedule can be met while firing this person and getting someone else on-board in time.
Most likely, your manager and his boss are going to drone on about some rewording of buzzwords and the company's mission, perhaps changing your role some. Or at least renaming what is already done to make it appear improvements have been made. Just listen and don't be on the defensive. For a number of reasons. If you come across as negative, it will only hurt you. The reason they want to tell you all this stuff in-person is to gauge your reaction. If it was just information, they could email it to you. But if it looks like you aren't positive to what is being said, they will be unhappy about that and that will cause you to fall out of favor. But if you don't like what is being said, look for another job, but fighting with them about it never works. They have discussed and decided how they are going to do things, and most of these meetings are designed to "handle" employees so they go with the flow. You don't have to go with the flow, you can always work elsewhere, just don't let them know that. Your goal in this meeting is for them to leave feeling you are a good guy and are in agreement with them.
They aren't going to argue with you and the meeting will be over soon. They would talk together privately and your manager's boss would indicate you need to be replaced. It will be a short conversation and it will be your manager's job to take care of it.
What is not going to happen,
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is they all the sudden realize they are wrong, your manager is found incompetent and gets fired right in front of you, making you the new manager of his group with a large salary increase. Your former manager is escorted out the door carrying a box of personal items from his desk
They aren't going to argue with you and the meeting will be over soon. They would talk together privately and your manager's boss would indicate you need to be replaced. It will be a short conversation and it will be your manager's job to take care of it.
What is not going to happen, .
My manager already scheduled this meeting for 30 minutes. I have seen on his calendar that he scheduled the yearly performance review for others for 1 hour. I dont know if this means anything?
So you mean its better to keep quiet and agree with them no matter what they say?
if they say like how it is i cant say like how it is?
Last time i tried to argue with my manager about something and he said "who is the boss".
My manager already scheduled this meeting for 30 minutes. I have seen on his calendar that he scheduled the yearly performance review for others for 1 hour. I dont know if this means anything?
So you mean its better to keep quiet and agree with them no matter what they say?
if they say like how it is i cant say like how it is?
Last time i tried to argue with my manager about something and he said "who is the boss".
My manager already scheduled this meeting for 30 minutes. I have seen on his calendar that he scheduled the yearly performance review for others for 1 hour. I dont know if this means anything?
So you mean its better to keep quiet and agree with them no matter what they say?
if they say like how it is i cant say like how it is?
Last time i tried to argue with my manager about something and he said "who is the boss".
It sounds like this meeting may be in addition to the regular review.
Last time i tried to argue with my manager about something and he said "who is the boss".
Office Politics 101: if there’s something at work you don’t like, you can bring it up for discussion, but you MUST have a solution/alternative way of doing things when you do so.
Office Politics 201: if the boss doesn’t like your suggestion, then you say “okay boss, we’ll keep doing it your way”.
Office Politics 301: if you can’t do 201, then look for another job.
Office Politics 101: if there’s something at work you don’t like, you can bring it up for discussion, but you MUST have a solution/alternative way of doing things when you do so.
Office Politics 201: if the boss doesn’t like your suggestion, then you say “okay boss, we’ll keep doing it your way”.
Office Politics 301: if you can’t do 201, then look for another job.
I agree. AND if you keep being insistent, and/or arrogant about it, then you WILL be looking for another job.
And consider this.... if your meeting is for 30 minutes, while everyone else's is 60, maybe it takes less time to fire someone, than it takes to discuss the performance expectations with an employee that's going to remain with the business.
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