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Old 05-20-2012, 12:16 PM
 
692 posts, read 1,355,590 times
Reputation: 455

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocoricoco View Post
Mulhall

I like the fact that NATO is an extension of the US policy, at least the US has a coherent foreign policy,
I prefer NATO as an extension of the US policy than as an extension of, say, French or German policy.
I do not trust French, Germans and above all, I do not trust the USSR (or whatever name it has now).
The US does not need bases anymore, they can deploy their troops in 24 hours.
I am in favour of US bases.....
And I do not see Europe having its own SERIOUS ARMY and SERIOUS FOREIGN POLICY in the near (or very distant) future.
Let's face it bluntly, the EEC is an American protectorate and I hope it continues that way.
The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR) doesn't exist any more, what remains is now the Russian Federation and my point in relation to NATO was that it has changed from an organisation based on a common commitment to national defence, in to a global world policeman. Should NATO not stick to orginial remit of national defence rather than being an extension of American or indeed any other nations foreign policy.

The EEC no longer exists, it's now the European Union and new cooperation between nations such as France and the UK is helping to forge more intergrated and responsive Joint European Military Collaboration. There has also been a new emphasis on smart defence and the pooling and sharing of European Defence resources in order to stop duplication and encourage greater intergration of European Military Resources. The new emphasis on savings and austerity mau actually drive European Governments to work ever more closely in areas such as defence.

Defence and Security Co-operation Treaty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ministry of Defence | Defence News | Defence Policy and Business | UK-France Defence Co-operation Treaty announced

EU promotes pooling and sharing to cut defence costs | Reuters

EU defense ministers endorse pooling of resources | World news | The Guardian

As for the Russian Federation. as I have already stated they are no longer the massive superpower they once were, they are a country with a defence iudget of around $70 Billion and a population of around 143 million compared to the EU which has a joint population of over 500 million and spends over $270 Billion on Defence.




Last edited by Mulhall; 05-20-2012 at 01:03 PM..
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Old 05-20-2012, 12:23 PM
 
Location: In the heights
37,157 posts, read 39,418,669 times
Reputation: 21252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocoricoco View Post
Mulhall

I like the fact that NATO is an extension of the US policy, at least the US has a coherent foreign policy,
I prefer NATO as an extension of the US policy than as an extension of, say, French or German policy.
I do not trust French, Germans and above all, I do not trust the USSR (or whatever name it has now).
The US does not need bases anymore, they can deploy their troops in 24 hours.
I am in favour of US bases.....
And I do not see Europe having its own SERIOUS ARMY and SERIOUS FOREIGN POLICY in the near (or very distant) future.
Let's face it bluntly, the EEC is an American protectorate and I hope it continues that way.
What? No. That hasn't been anything near the case for a long time.

The USSR is gone now and Russia does not have anywhere near the ability for adventures abroad that the USSR did. You are absolutely ridiculous to even hint its in continued existence. Did you not realize that pretty much all of the Warsaw Pact and most of the European former socialist republics are no longer within Russia's fold?
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Old 05-20-2012, 12:28 PM
 
355 posts, read 1,190,370 times
Reputation: 311
NATO always been a American Global World Policeman (leaving the PC language aside), the only thing that has changed is that now we are globalized. Before, the world was much smaller...

Europeans can't defend themselves.

As to Russia or the USSR...not much difference... Germans have not changed that much either...French..Italians..

Better let Americans do it.
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Old 05-20-2012, 12:32 PM
 
355 posts, read 1,190,370 times
Reputation: 311
What? No. That hasn't been anything near the case for a long time.

-----

You call 20 years a long time? I do not trust them, sooner or later they'll create problems.
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Old 05-20-2012, 12:39 PM
 
Location: In the heights
37,157 posts, read 39,418,669 times
Reputation: 21252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocoricoco View Post
What? No. That hasn't been anything near the case for a long time.

-----

You call 20 years a long time? I do not trust them, sooner or later they'll create problems.
Things change radically--it's true things can change radically for the worse or some such, but that just means you have to keep up. There's been a lot of flux in the world since the end of the Cold War.

I'm curious though, what nationality are you? Spaniard? Are you a male in your fifties?
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Old 05-20-2012, 12:49 PM
 
692 posts, read 1,355,590 times
Reputation: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocoricoco View Post
NATO always been a American Global World Policeman (leaving the PC language aside), the only thing that has changed is that now we are globalized. Before, the world was much smaller...

Europeans can't defend themselves.

As to Russia or the USSR...not much difference... Germans have not changed that much either...French..Italians..

Better let Americans do it.
I don't recall NATO being involved in anything outside of Europe prior to 9/11. There was no NATO Force in Vietnam or Korea, and even after 9/11 there has been a reluctance by many NATO Countries to send anything beyond token forces to places like Iraq and Afghanistan. The US, Canadians, British and a couple of smaller nations such as the Danes providing the bulk of the frontline troops in the most dangerous areas.

I am quite sure European could defend themselves, indeed the EU accounts for nearly a quarter of global military spending, whilst America accounts for half. Meaning NATO accounts for nearly three quarters of all global military spending.

The EU has 1.7 Million Regular Service Personnel, 2.6 Reserve Military Personnel and 755,000 Paramilitary Forces making a combined total of over 5 million personnel. The EU has 2,190 Combat Aircraft and over 600 Commissioned Warships including over 170 Frigates, Destroets and Corvettes, 18 Amphibous Warfare Vessels, 159 Mine Warefare Vessels, 60 Submarines and 6 Aircraft Carriers (with the UK currently constructing a further two 65,000 ton Queen Elizabeth Class Carriers).

Military of the European Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

British and French forces actually alreay train very closely together

Ministry of Defence | Defence News | Defence Policy and Business | UK-France Defence Co-operation Treaty announced

Ministry of Defence | Defence News | Training and Adventure | Paratroopers train with French Airborne Cavalry

Ministry of Defence | Defence News | Defence Policy and Business | British and French navies plan major exercise for 2012

Ministry of Defence | Defence News | Training and Adventure | British and French soldiers train together at Otterburn

Ministry of Defence | Defence News | Training and Adventure | British and French troops train together

Ministry of Defence | Defence News | Training and Adventure | British and French gunners reinforce links on exercise

Ministry of Defence | Defence News | Training and Adventure | Air, land and sea forces combine for Exercise Joint Warrior

Militaires Sans Frontieres

The new British Royal Navy Queen Eizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers

BAE Systems: building the UK’s new aircraft carrier - Telegraph





Last edited by Mulhall; 05-20-2012 at 01:19 PM..
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Old 05-20-2012, 01:07 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,212 posts, read 107,931,771 times
Reputation: 116160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocoricoco View Post
I do not trust the USSR (or whatever name it has now).
LOL! "The Russian Federation". or, The Putin Empire.
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Old 05-20-2012, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Coldwind Farm
647 posts, read 797,335 times
Reputation: 558
Almost nobody here is interesting NATO and nobody afraid NATO, it's fact. What I think about it... NATO isn't world policeman, and in future, this organization will play a smaller role in the world politics, because the emergence of new superpowers is inevitably, and I think they won't consider the opinion of the NATO.
I also don't worry about future of NATO.
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Old 05-20-2012, 01:26 PM
 
692 posts, read 1,355,590 times
Reputation: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartonfly View Post
Almost nobody here is interesting NATO and nobody afraid NATO, it's fact. What I think about it... NATO isn't world policeman, and in future, this organization will play a smaller role in the world politics, because the emergence of new superpowers is inevitably, and I think they won't consider the opinion of the NATO.
I also don't worry about future of NATO.
NATO was never designed to be a force for intimidation, it was a force designed to defend Western Europe from the Warsaw Pact. It's role now has increasingly become one of getting involved in conflicts all over the world, and for many European Nations this does not sit comfortable with the orginal remit and purpose of the alliance.

Of course there will be new superpowers, and Britain has always had a close relationship with countries such as India and much of the Far East, whilst we were trading with China long before the US even existed as a nation.

Whilst I am not against NATO, I do think there has to be a lot of discussion in relation to the new role of the alliance, coupled with greater commitment from certain NATO members such as Germany.



Last edited by Mulhall; 05-20-2012 at 01:39 PM..
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Old 05-20-2012, 01:34 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,212 posts, read 107,931,771 times
Reputation: 116160
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartonfly View Post
Almost nobody here is interesting NATO and nobody afraid NATO, it's fact. What I think about it... NATO isn't world policeman, and in future, this organization will play a smaller role in the world politics, because the emergence of new superpowers is inevitably, and I think they won't consider the opinion of the NATO.
I also don't worry about future of NATO.
Hi, bartonfly. Welcome to C-D. Thanks for giving us a view of what the general public thinks in Russia (I couldn't miss your Russian accent! ) Unfortunately, your view doesn't seem to be shared by your leadership, which was fairly upset at the idea of Bulgaria, Romania and especially Georgia joining NATO, as I recall. I agree with Mulhall, that there needs to be a transparent discussion among members regarding what NATO's mission should and shouldn't be. It needs a new charter, something hopefully the majority of members can agree on, not an agenda shoved down their throats by the US.
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