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The difference between the two could be because people who immigrated a long time ago or maybe never even lived in Italy, often tend to speak a very colloquial variant of the language.
For an example of the impact of official status: Icelandic is official in Iceland and has less than 400,000 speakers, whereas Catalan has 8 million speakers and only has semi-official or officious status (if we're not counting tiny Andorra). Guess which language has more computer programs available in it? Icelandic. By far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack
That was not the point. I love Catalonia, Catalans and their language.
But Icelandic is still less threatened than Catalan.
Youth grows up nowadays watching and reading content online on the internet, as well as watching series and shows on TV.
Do you think that Icelandic youth is watching content online in Icelandic?
Do you think that Icelandic youth has the luxury of having TV series available in Icelandic?
There's barely any content in Icelandic available. Icelandic youth is massively using English as there is a lack of alternatives in Icelandic.
"Catalonia has transmitted more episodes than any other languages in the Iberian Peninsula. At present, it has dubbed 516[1] episodes in Catalan on the popular teen channel K3 (later called 3XL) and Super3, whereas in Spanish there are only 263."
This is however not the case, as knowledge and use of Catalan has increased both in % as well as in total numbers between 1975 and 2010, and between 2008 and 2018 use and knowledge of Catalan remained stable. What is even more positive is that the young generation in Catalonia has the highest share of Catalan knowledge and that Catalonian youth is even more using Catalan among each other than Spanish in higher education. So I think Icelandic is more fragile than Catalan.
"In the workplace, the language most frequently used is Catalan (45.5%) and 42.4% of the employed population work in centres where Spanish is the most commonly used language."
"With the election of the centre-right nationalist party Convergencia
i Unió (CiU) in 1980, a process of Catalan national reconstruction was
initiated with two clear aims: firstly, the recovery and expansion of selfgovernment;
and secondly, the preservation and revitalisation Catalan
cultural identity (Guibernau 2002). [...]
For its part, the autonomous Government of Catalonia has assumed full
competences in the following areas: the development and implementation
of the basic regulation of media and communications (for example, the
development of the planning of the radio spectrum carried out by the
Spanish Government); cinema; promotion of the Catalan language and
culture; and the establishment of its own public communication media. [...]
It is important to bear in mind that, while in 1975 as many as 79.9% of Catalonia’s inhabitants understood Catalan, only 53.1% spoke it. [...]
Catalonia’s linguistic policy has been designed around two objectives:
firstly, the development of the media in Catalan; and secondly, what was
known as linguistic immersion—the use of Catalan as the language of
instruction in all public primary and secondary schools in Catalonia. The result has been an improvement in the state of the language. The Catalangovernment’s latest Language Policy Report (2010) reveals that 95% of
inhabitants of over 15 years of age understand Catalan, while 65% claim
they know how to speak it. Furthermore, 36% of Catalan citizens state that
Catalan is their usual language, while 12% say they use it indistinctly with
Spanish (Generalitat de Catalunya 2010, 244). Thus 48% of people who live in Catalonia use the Catalan language in their daily life. [...]
With the progressive expansion of material and human resources during those
years, CCRTV helped to strengthen the Catalan communication sphere,
helped by the Act on Linguistic Policy 1/1998, which consolidated the normalisation of the Catalan language in Catalan public media by obliging
radio and television broadcasters under licence granted by the Generalitat
to guarantee at least 50% of their broadcasting time would be provided in
Catalan. In order to guarantee a significant presence of Catalan in films
shown in Catalonia, a decree made in the same year also obliged film
distributors to dub or subtitle into Catalan half of the copies of those films
of which 18 or more copies were distributed in Catalonia. Due to pressure
from multinational distribution companies, this measure did not come into
effect. Nevertheless, many distributors did agree to dub films into Catalan
and provide a suitable number of showings in cinemas (Jones 1999). [...]
The normalisation of the international use of Catalan reached an
important milestone when, in 2005, the Internet Corporation for Assigned
Names and Numbers (ICANN) approved the generic Internet domain
“.cat”. This was the first time that a domain of this type had been granted to a linguistic and cultural community. [...]
In October 2012, five Catalan online press publications had, for the first time, more
than half a million unique users. [...] (Guimerà / Viso)"
Source:
Guimerà , Josep Àngel and Ana Fernández Viso (2014): National reconstruction and the Media in Catalonia; in Jones, Huw David (Ed.): The Media in Europe's Small Nations. Newcastle upon Tyne: Cambridge Scholars Publishing.
So Acajack , do your kids watch content in French or English, and do you think they would have the luxury of watching some cool and popular stuff in Icelandic if you were living in Iceland? In Catalonia, at least there is some popular stuff available in Catalan.
Youth grows up nowadays watching and reading content online on the internet, as well as watching series and shows on TV.
Do you think that Icelandic youth is watching content online in Icelandic?
Do you think that Icelandic youth has the luxury of having TV series available in Icelandic?
There's barely any content in Icelandic available. Icelandic youth is massively using English as there is a lack of alternatives in Icelandic. .
Catalans really love and defend their language. EVERYONE has to study through the medium of Catalan in Catalan schools. The Spanish Courts in Madrid have said that Catalonia must also provide Spanish-medium education to those parents who want it, but Catalonia has completely ignored the court! Imagine if Quebec did something like that.
Catalans really love and defend their language. EVERYONE has to study through the medium of Catalan in Catalan schools. The Spanish Courts in Madrid have said that Catalonia must also provide Spanish-medium education to those parents who want it, but Catalonia has completely ignored the court! Imagine if Quebec did something like that.
I've been in favour of a single medium school system in Quebec for a long time. Something like 85% of the day in French and 15% in English. Or maybe even 75% French, 15% English and 5% in Spanish.
I am not the only one who has suggested this but it runs totally against the Canadian Constitution which guarantees the anglo minority here its own English medium schools.
OTOH the number of students in English medium schools in Quebec continues to decline steadily.
At least relative to Icelandic, I am not super impressed by the stats on Catalan cited above.
In Iceland, 100% of the population can speak, read and write Icelandic and basically 100% of people have it as a native language.
That English is growing in influence there as a *secondary* language is a real issue, but that's a bit of a different matter. (English is also growing in influence in Catalonia too, as it is in most places.)
Even if it's not for financial return purposes I see no point on learning Portuguese when Portuguese speaking people understand Spanish really well (better than the other way around). Of course if one wants to live in one of those countries it is important to learn the language, other than that, no thanks.
I've been to Brazil many times for vacation and since their English skills are very poor (this also applies to Latin America as a whole) I did fine with Spanish only.
You have missed AFP's point by a zillion millions. Read the post again.
At least relative to Icelandic, I am not super impressed by the stats on Catalan cited above.
In Iceland, 100% of the population can speak, read and write Icelandic and basically 100% of people have it as a native language.
That English is growing in influence there as a *secondary* language is a real issue, but that's a bit of a different matter. (English is also growing in influence in Catalonia too, as it is in most places.)
English is not only growing in influence as a secondary language, it rivals with Icelandic as a primary language in entertainment, literature and higher education.
100% is no indicator of superior strength if media consumption often happens to be in English, including literature.
English is not a secondary language in Iceland like it is in Portugal, Germany or Italy; entertainment and education is in these countries in their national languages and English is an option that is not challenging the dominance of Portuguese, German or Italian - that is totally different in Iceland.
If you watch a movie dubbed in English, and not in Icelandic, what does differentiate you from an US-American or a British?
What makes Icelandic youth any different from American and British youth if they watch on Netflix movies in English? and consume English youtube Videos?
English stops being a secondary language and becomes a primary language in these cases.
"Another thing that influenced me was TV. My best friend had satellite TV and we would watch the DJ Kat Show on Sky One religiously plus that most of the cartoons on Icelandic TV back then were not dubbed but had subtitles. Although that has changed now, at least when it comes to children’s TV, TV in Iceland is still not dubbed like they do in many countries around us. The Icelandic market is also very small so it’s very expensive to produce quality TV in Icelandic and because of that most of our TV is in English with Icelandic subtitles. Now we also have Netflix in Iceland and Icelandic subtitles aren’t even an option so if you are watching something in Spanish or German or something you’ll watch that with English subtitles." https://iheartreykjavik.net/2016/07/...?cn-reloaded=1
Acajack, French is an official language in Canada, while Catalan is not an official language in Spain, yet you made over 20,000 posts in English on City-data, which means that you spend several hours a day in English - this means that you are not fully functionally francophone despite living in French-speaking Gatineau. So you are below being 100% francophone and Icelandic youth isn't 100% Icelandic, either - they spend several hours a day in English!
Their non-Icelandic share on Youtube and Netflix will likely be greater than 90% and account for several hours a day, while in Catalonia the Catalan government is doing much to ensure that Catalan people have media, movies and series available in Catalan.
After school, some Icelandic kids will have 80% English afternoons, while Catalan kids may have a 50% Catalan & 50% Spanish afternoon, or 80% Catalan afternoon.
The effective share of people getting in touch with Icelandic in Iceland is not greater than the effective share of Catalans getting in touch with Catalan.
Catalan is stronger within Catalonia than Icelandic within Iceland, because the Catalan government is caring about Catalan and offering services and content in Catalan that! There is no equivalent to this in Iceland.
+ one more very important remark:
The 100% share of Icelandic means little as the share of English amoung the young generation exceeds 90% and can be used instead of Icelandic.
Also the Catalan government has narrowed the gap between Catalan and Spanish in the young generation, and the young generation now has over 80% Catalan writing skills.
English is not only growing in influence as a secondary language, it rivals with Icelandic as a primary language in entertainment, literature and higher education.
100% is no indicator of superior strength if media consumption often happens to be in English, including literature.
English is not a secondary language in Iceland like it is in Portugal, Germany or Italy; entertainment and education is in these countries in their national languages and English is an option that is not challenging the dominance of Portuguese, German or Italian - that is totally different in Iceland.
If you watch a movie dubbed in English, and not in Icelandic, what does differentiate you from an US-American or a British?
What makes Icelandic youth any different from American and British youth if they watch on Netflix movies in English? and consume English youtube Videos?
English stops being a secondary language and becomes a primary language in these cases.
"Another thing that influenced me was TV. My best friend had satellite TV and we would watch the DJ Kat Show on Sky One religiously plus that most of the cartoons on Icelandic TV back then were not dubbed but had subtitles. Although that has changed now, at least when it comes to children’s TV, TV in Iceland is still not dubbed like they do in many countries around us. The Icelandic market is also very small so it’s very expensive to produce quality TV in Icelandic and because of that most of our TV is in English with Icelandic subtitles. Now we also have Netflix in Iceland and Icelandic subtitles aren’t even an option so if you are watching something in Spanish or German or something you’ll watch that with English subtitles." https://iheartreykjavik.net/2016/07/...?cn-reloaded=1
Acajack, French is an official language in Canada, while Catalan is not an official language in Spain, yet you made over 20,000 posts in English on City-data, which means that you spend several hours a day in English - this means that you are not fully functionally francophone despite living in French-speaking Gatineau. So you are below being 100% francophone and Icelandic youth isn't 100% Icelandic, either - they spend several hours a day in English!
Their non-Icelandic share on Youtube and Netflix will likely be greater than 90% and account for several hours a day, while in Catalonia the Catalan government is doing much to ensure that Catalan people have media, movies and series available in Catalan.
After school, some Icelandic kids will have 80% English afternoons, while Catalan kids may have a 50% Catalan & 50% Spanish afternoon, or 80% Catalan afternoon.
The effective share of people getting in touch with Icelandic in Iceland is not greater than the effective share of Catalans getting in touch with Catalan.
Catalan is stronger within Catalonia than Icelandic within Iceland, because the Catalan government is caring about Catalan and offering services and content in Catalan that! There is no equivalent to this in Iceland.
+ one more very important remark:
The 100% share of Icelandic means little as the share of English amoung the young generation exceeds 90% and can be used instead of Icelandic.
Also the Catalan government has narrowed the gap between Catalan and Spanish in the young generation, and the young generation now has over 80% Catalan writing skills.
Is this even true about Icelanders consuming cultural products almost exclusively in English? I highly doubt this. They have domestic TV shows that get 90% of viewers sometimes. And their book publishing industry, relative to population, is huge. There are books that during the prime book sale season (around Christmas?) that sell 10s of 1000s of copies in a country of only 350,000 people.
Their non-Icelandic share on Youtube and Netflix will likely be greater than 90% and account for several hours a day, while in Catalonia the Catalan government is doing much to ensure that Catalan people have media, movies and series available in Catalan.
After school, some Icelandic kids will have 80% English afternoons, while Catalan kids may have a 50% Catalan & 50% Spanish afternoon, or 80% Catalan afternoon.
The effective share of people getting in touch with Icelandic in Iceland is not greater than the effective share of Catalans getting in touch with Catalan.
Catalan is stronger within Catalonia than Icelandic within Iceland, because the Catalan government is caring about Catalan and offering services and content in Catalan that! There is no equivalent to this in Iceland.
+ one more very important remark:
The 100% share of Icelandic means little as the share of English amoung the young generation exceeds 90% and can be used instead of Icelandic.
Also the Catalan government has narrowed the gap between Catalan and Spanish in the young generation, and the young generation now has over 80% Catalan writing skills.
The Icelandic government doesn't need to do that much to "promote" the use of Icelandic in every day life because every day life and the language of everything institutionally in Iceland is already in Icelandic only.
Acajack, French is an official language in Canada, while Catalan is not an official language in Spain, yet you made over 20,000 posts in English on City-data, which means that you spend several hours a day in English - this means that you are not fully functionally francophone despite living in French-speaking Gatineau. So you are below being 100% francophone and Icelandic youth isn't 100% Icelandic, either - they spend several hours a day in English!
I don't know what that proves except that everyone is unique. In terms of posting on online forums in English, I am not typical at all of francophones in Quebec.
Also, everything else I've done today has been in French: with my family this morning, the radio while having breakfast, all the work I've done, having lunch, etc.
I went out with friends to a bar last night - all in French too. The host of the evening, chatter with friends and staff, the printout of the bill, instructions on the debit machine, etc.
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