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Both tie Sydney and Miami as my four favorite cities in the world (it is a four way tie for #1 for me, with the ever so slightest of an edge going to Sydney on my personal preference.)
Both Melbourne and Tel-Aviv appeal to me equally with regards to visiting and living in propositions. I have been to Melbourne once before, albeit a very long time ago, but never Tel-Aviv. So it stands to reason that Tel-Aviv is the next one for me to visit between these two but ultimately my life goal is to own my very own flat, house, apartment unit, or condominium (or any other type of housing) in the downtown sections of all four of my favorite cities. That's the life goal. That is what keeps me going every single day, that goal. That's what I want more than anything else in the world and that's what I'll make happen later in my life.
If there’s any airport in the world that is highest on my list for getting at some point it’s Tel Aviv. Visiting the Holy Land is at the top of my list of places I haven’t been yet and I think Tel Aviv I want to combine with that for a decent bit of time too, looks like a super underrated city. With that said, part of me wants to delay that gratification of that particular trip until later in life. Seeking spiritual understanding (Im Christian, but I honestly mean in general) is a central goal of mine in life. And, I’m not sure I want to visit those central sites to faith until I’ve perhaps reached some level of understanding whether through reading, experience, or just wisdom that comes with age. Maybe that’s stupid and I should try to just get there ASAP, but I want to maybe leave a couple places super high on my list that I’ll experience throughout life. So many other places I can get to first!
PS(a bit off topic): while I’m not personally huge on Miami (heat, flatness, not a ton of park space), I respect your opinion ienough that it’s elevated Miami several pegs for me. It makes me want to to go more and feel more privileged to live 3 hours from such a city. I want to experience the things it offers, including the nightlife (which may sound at odds with my previous paragraph, but not with my perspective on Christianity lol)
I’m very solid on the other ones. And I like both of these. Melbourne is a pretty neat place but I’m not sure I liked it quite as much as Sydney. Maybe it was because I had shorter an amount of time there, and I used some of that short time heading off to the 1956 Olympics Venue and Australian Open courts (which while nice, left me with less time to generally explore the city)
If there’s any airport in the world that is highest on my list for getting at some point it’s Tel Aviv. Visiting the Holy Land is at the top of my list of places I haven’t been yet and I think Tel Aviv I want to combine with that for a decent bit of time too, looks like a super underrated city. With that said, part of me wants to delay that gratification of that particular trip until later in life. Seeking spiritual understanding (Im Christian, but I honestly mean in general) is a central goal of mine in life. And, I’m not sure I want to visit those central sites to faith until I’ve perhaps reached some level of understanding whether through reading, experience, or just wisdom that comes with age. Maybe that’s stupid and I should try to just get there ASAP, but I want to maybe leave a couple places super high on my list that I’ll experience throughout life. So many other places I can get to first!
PS(a bit off topic): while I’m not personally huge on Miami (heat, flatness, not a ton of park space), I respect your opinion ienough that it’s elevated Miami several pegs for me. It makes me want to to go more and feel more privileged to live 3 hours from such a city. I want to experience the things it offers, including the nightlife (which may sound at odds with my previous paragraph, but not with my perspective on Christianity lol)
I’m very solid on the other ones. And I like both of these. Melbourne is a pretty neat place but I’m not sure I liked it quite as much as Sydney. Maybe it was because I had shorter an amount of time there, and I used some of that short time heading off to the 1956 Olympics Venue and Australian Open courts (which while nice, left me with less time to generally explore the city)
I would categorically say that each of the four represents each side of me in one manner or another, I think of them as the four corners to my very being.
For instance, on the surface, Miami is a poor fit for me due to the fact that I am not a beach person (I tend to value the coast for other reasons that usually have nothing to do with an actual beach itself), not into "people watching", not into shopping, and not into nightlife scenes that involve dance clubs and/or clubbing.
Miami works for me because I find its coastal attributes to be useful for some of my other interests; kite flying over the ocean (I just did this yesterday out here, love it), boating, renting jet skis and having fun, taking ferries, dolphin and whale watching, and using the various canal-ways in the metropolitan area for kayaking and canoeing. I have also been dying to get into parasailing, which I can just imagine becoming my favorite outdoor hobby and the fact that a lot of areas in Biscayne Bay are shallow enough to walk in for quite some time, it is quite advantageous for me with regards to water activities (especially kite flying over the ocean where the wind speed is high).
I also love the ecosystem of Miami. Since childhood the one type of animal that I've drawn an immediate connection to are birds. When I lived in a foreign country as a child there used to be so many birds and different types of birds always around us. I learned how to care for them properly, I learned all of their "spots" where if you rub them they become happy, I learned their eating habits and by watching them I learned how intelligent they are. For me Miami is the best place in the continental United States as a bird lover, lots of different species of birds live there year round and even more during the winter months as more arrive from points north. I'm usually very good with birds, even with ones that are in the wild I know how to gain their trust, how to get them to land right on my finger. When they are hurt, I know how to fix their legs and wings if it is ever broken. I know where their blood points are in their nails, I even know how to trim it without ever hurting them or causing them any pain. To me an environment with lots of different bird species is a super plus point but the added advantage to Miami goes even further than that; I also love marine life as well. Not anywhere near as much as I love avian life but my affinity for marine animal life tends to also go above and beyond. I especially love dolphins and when boating in the Miami area, those are the ones that I keep my eye out for the most. I love how playful they are, when they jump at the wake of the boat and how they travel in groups. Same thing with whales and various species of fish. I love the water quality and water temperature in Miami, it opens the door for how much I can interact with them. I also love the decentralization of the metropolitan region, at the city level between Miami, Fort Lauderdale, and West Palm Beach -- all three so radically different from one another but all three in one singular metropolis with one another but also the dichotomy that exists between Miami-Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach counties. Each represent a different taste in culture and an entirely different style of build with respect to urbanization. I value that aspect.
In terms of culture and architecture, I tend to like Miami too. I really love the red tile homes in the Miami area with a Spanish influenced build and lots and lots of green trees all around to make it even more striking. I love dense vertical cities, especially when midrises, highrises, skyscrapers and the like become a permanent fixture to the area. For me, I love culture, I know that for my age it is a rarity but I really do love symphonic music. I know of most of the great composers and musicians that lived from the time of ancient Vienna and Florence, all the way to contemporary musicians and artists. All I ask for in a city, with regards to culture, is a solid set of symphony orchestras, museums, art galleries, and live performance theaters. I truly enjoy these things, I don't necessarily need these things to be among the best ever on the planet but just solid in their own way but for me these are things I have actual use for and utilize greatly. Miami also hits the box on cost of living and tax structure. Of all 4 of my preferred cities, Miami is by far and away the most cost effective one and I love the no income tax thing with Florida. As someone who is apolitical, I also tend to like Florida's status as a purple state, because to me it is important to acknowledge and borrow ideas from both sides if possible regardless of the rhetoric that comes from one party or the other. I view it as a healthy and balanced way to live out ones life. I am not suggesting that people abandon their political views, but rather look towards successful ideas from the other side and try to implement it if possible. I also love the music scene in Miami with regards to electronic music and various electronic genres. I also know where to find good bars, raves, and the like to get my nightlife fix in that area. I also find Miami's food scene to be a one of a kind sort of place in the United States, partly due to demographics but also because of the localized culture there. Miami also gives me a chance to be close to my family and friends, the majority of whom live in the United States. It gives them a place to see me without needing a passport and it gives them an excuse to come and vacation in my city and gives them enough things to do and see while there.
With regards to Sydney, it's appeal to me comes in its dynamic setting and iconic cultural attributes. Architecturally it my favorite of the bunch and the manner in which the city is built appeals to me greatly. It honestly just feels like someone took the ideal built city out of my dreams and recreated it in actual life. I like that it is a low crime city and values electronic music and an outdoorsy life style. It is a great blend of so many attributes with regard to architecture, culture, setting, geography, diversity, food, performing arts, and the like. Sydney has the best location in Australia among all of its major cities in my opinion. Going north I can be in the Gold Coast and then Brisbane quicker than I would be if I were starting out in Melbourne and the national capital, Canberra, is also a worthwhile distance away. I imagine that it is a shorter flight to Auckland and Wellington as well in New Zealand due to geographic proximity, which bodes well. I love the geographical features in Oceania, it is my favorite realm of the world with regards to scenery and outdoors. Lots of great mountain areas just right out of the metropolitan area to explore on weekends or holidays. Lots of great wildlife in that area too.
Melbourne's appeal to me is sharpened through the lens of culture. I love how the central city is built with the laneways and arcades. Love the deep cultural attributes, the city is at the forefront of Oceania's nightlife, music scene, and literature scene. I tend to love semi-nerdy cities that have lots of mom-and-pop style bookstores, plenty of libraries, and a culture geared towards that sort of thing. While its natural setting is not up to par with Sydney, I still find incredible value in its coastal location on the bay and the mountains being a short driving distance away from the city. Like its gorgeous sister city Sydney, Melbourne too has an impressive diversity track record. Plenty of great culinary delights from all over the world can be had, especially from the Asia-Pacific region of the world. The public art work, the mix of the local food cultures with international ones, the murals, the skyline, the livability aspect (low crime, good social environment, very educated populace) all appeal to me about Melbourne.
I have not ever been to Tel-Aviv but from what I know of it, I know that I will absolutely love it. I feel this is the one that would appeal to me the most with respect to nightlife as the city's moniker indicates it is a 24/7 sort of location. I usually love going out for the night pretty late. When I am vacationing in a city, I try to see as many of the city's cultural institutions, architecture, foodie spots, and even some tours at educational institutions with gorgeous campuses during the day time. At times I like to drag those events out till around 11 PM or even midnight, thus I tend to enjoy starting my nightlife fix after midnight. The deeper and longer a city's nightlife goes, the more scheduling flexibility it gives me to go out there and do as many things as I can in the city first before making my way to some drinking establishments or a rave or a live music event or something of the sort. I also love Tel-Aviv's brand of urbanity and density, I simply find it gorgeous, even the gritty areas that folks think of as architecturally devoid, I really dig it. I find its economic attributes to be attractive too, this is a very well positioned city for the future. Their economy has all of the right industries and they have quite a scientific track record, especially with regards to medicine and technology. I find them to be impressive. I find the Israelis to be incredibly ingenuitive with regards to technology and Tel-Aviv seems like a smartly planned city. Increasingly going vertical.
The thing about all four, the thing they all have in common is that they are all quickly growing cities. As a 27 year old, I would love to be in a city that grows up and ages alongside of me in life. I have a sort of obsession with the concept of a megacity, actually I would say it is a deep obsession, and the prospect of all 4 of these becoming megacities at some point in my life before my days are over appeals to me greatly because I want to witness it. It would be a dream come true to see it happen, especially with places that mean a lot to me. I feel like with me it is akin to being a parent and seeing a child graduate both high school and college. To me it is the transition from a large and major city to a permanently huge one. I want to see it happen and I can get that with them all. All four appeal to me for very different reasons, I think of my affinity for the four as the four corners of my soul and tastes. They each bring something to the table that work to their advantage, I cannot even think of a way to separate one from the other three really. I give the ever so slightest of an edge to Sydney but only because its street level form just mesmerizes the hell out of me, especially coupled with its geographical traits and setting. However, that edge is only a 0.0001% of a differentiator, all four are basically tied to me. As someone that wants to see as many cities in the world as possible before my time expires, I also appreciate that all four have amazing airport systems that can get me to places hassle free. I love it when cities can be used as a jump pad for other cities, it is one of the features I actively seek out in big cities when I am scouting them as a place to live.
London, Tokyo, and Hong Kong also appeal to me at great lengths and the three come right after those other four I just wrote about in the paragraphs above on my personal list. However, the one thing none of London, Tokyo, and Hong Kong can offer me that the other four can is that I can grow with the city and age with the city and witness them go from medium or large major cities to permanently huge megacities all in the span of one lifetime.
Last edited by Trafalgar Law; 07-15-2018 at 09:01 PM..
Haven't been to neither, but I think a first world, multicultural, western city (and one that of a developed country) would always 'beat' a relatively monoracial, eastern city that belongs to a developing country and has some economic issues here. Don't get me wrong, Israel is beautiful. But this is like comparing Montreal to Ankara. Both nice cities, but not very comparable and in the same league.
Israel? Developing country? It seems to me to be about the same as proclaiming Italy, or New Zealand to be developing. We are talking about a place that is in the Top 20 HDI, listed as high income by the World Bank alongside Western European countries, ranks generally Top 20 or so for Median Household Income and QOL, has great cities positioned in critical industries that will continue to blossom, 8th in life expectancy, 4th in educated residents, minimal issues with homelessness (only 2,300 in the whole country) and with crime, and a high level of social mobility.
Certainly, it’s not as diverse as say
Australia (for reasons I think are clear), but that could change with time, and also Japan isn’t super diverse either and they still seem to do okay. I’m not opposed to your argument that Melbourne or Australia is better overall than Tel Aviv or Israel (in fact, thanks to that diversity, I would feel more comfortable there in the long run too, though many countries with diversity have many of their own problems as well), but the idea of Tel Aviv/Israel being developing somehow, or being on the same level as Ankara is just completely foreign to everything I have read about the matter. Honestly, it sounds like a bit of a Euro-Centric mindset, though correct me if that isn’t true.
FKR: Thank you for being so transparent and detailed in sharing your passions. You really seem to be someone that takes your interests and maximizing your life seriously, which is very refreshing compared to many I see. I'm not sure if I'll ever pursue those things you mentioned about Miami to the degree that you do, as I have certain aspects of my own interests that exceed them (differences are good), but it will probably help me look at those things you see with a new eye. Living in South Tampa Bay, while I perhaps don't have quite the variety in avian or marine life that you see, I do see a number of those things on a daily basis. My FIL has a boat and we generally go out every month or two, and in that time, I see a myriad of birds and fish. One of the most impressive things to me is the general stillness that comes from being on a small craft boat, especially when I witness a sight like say a school of fish jumping out over the water in unison, or several dolphins playing in a group. There's an island between where Tampa Bay opens up to the Gulf of Mexico called Egmont Key that we occasionally dock near. I don't personally mind fishing, and perhaps if it were accented a different way (I'm VERY goal oriented, so just catching and releasing gets old, especially when oftentimes you catch the same fish multiple times. I try to just relax out there) I'd enjoy it more, but there are other aspects of the experience I enjoy much more. There are hundreds of birds at the southern tip of the island which is viewable but closed to the public, called Egmont Key NWR and it is quite a sight to witness. Plus, it was formerly a military base called Fort Dade which served to protect Tampa Bay during the Spanish-American war, and is sort of like ghost town now and one can wander in the barracks. I've done so before, and I guess it is sort of cool. For nature, my personal greatest enjoyment in nature is the stillness/vastness of landscapes (which is why even with coastal areas, I tend to like them more rugged). I like witnessing biodiversity, though ideally nothing that will eat me, and I'm more fascinated by plants (esp. trees) their smells, etc. I like places that just sort of feel "pure", not quite sure how to label, but cooler weather places seem that way more to me. Not necessarily freezing (though I don't mind), but I like the feeling of wearing a jacket and having cool wind whip against me.
I'm not sure I'd be able to stay awake long enough to truly be clubbing until 8 AM or something, but at the same time, it's something I have in my mind to do, simply because I haven't yet. I'm not that much of a live music person, or a nightclub person, but sometime when I go down there I plan to start the night by catching a gig at say Churchill's Pub, then perhaps getting into the LIV hopefully, then going somewhere with a morning last call (at least 6), then getting breakfast somewhere. Just so that I can ultimately say I've had all those experiences.
The kayaking part I think especially appeals to me, since I do think of that as something which is completion oriented, but also, the idea of paddling up against the view of Biscayne Bay just seems dramatic and super invigorating. Next time I'm down there (sometime during the fall), I really hope to be able to do so. I also really do enjoy the airport part. I had maligned the fact that Florida seems a bit isolated to other population centers in the US, but at the same time, one of the cool things is that from Miami (and really even Orlando), I can hop a flight and in a few hours be at any number of outstanding Latin American cities, both for their natural landscape and culture. Not everywhere in the US can you do that.
Another point I'm not sure you made, but Miami is kind of neat for it's setting as an event hub of sorts. Sometime, I plan to go down for Art Basel, and also for SoBe Food and Wine.
Miami perhaps (almost certainly) has more unique stuff overall, but I've found I kind of like extremes. I like either a dense, intense city experience, or nature, where I feel like I'm truly out alone in the vast wilderness with no one around. That's why the morning I went by train from Mong Kok station, four stops up, hiked Lion Rock and then came back and ate at street markets in HK was one of the most fulfilling and fun experiences of my entire life. For my personal tastes, Miami, while more intensely urban in excitement than where I am at now, on my last visit, still felt too much "in between" that for my tastes. But, it has grown on me and I've found more things I like about it on each visit (last time, I checked out the Vizcaya Estate and was really pleasantly surprised, and I liked Coconut Grove area as it felt a bit more authentic, and perhaps a bit more European in the sidewalk cafe sort of way than many other parts of Miami I had been to before that. One of the things I try to tell myself is that "History and architecture are everywhere". A lot of people I think wait to get to a place like Paris or Boston to walk around and do that type of stuff, but I think there's something to be said for exploring the history of a place like Miami or Tampa, as you almost feel a bit more ownership over it because of the fact the knowledge you then hold about the history or architecture is a bit more rare. I know this sounds ridiculous and geeky, but I have some friends doing this and I've been thinking about it too (in terms of travel when I only have a couple hours, locally between work, marriage and other responsibilities), is things like visiting all the different state parks, visiting all the county high points, visiting the county seats/courthouses and surrounding main streets (there are 68 in FL), and even perhaps trying to visit all the National Historic Landmarks or NRHP sites (usually there are at least 30 per county), and I guess learning a bit of their stories. Obviously, it's not quite as exciting as other places, given my tastes, but sometimes you have to make do with what is there. And, the point you make about being able to have family or friends present (which right now, I certainly do), is a salient one. One more point: The food in Miami=Amazing. I love LatAm food in general, and from my experience you can get great value/quality on all manner of it from all around town. Add in seafood, and the NYC influence, and you really do have a great place to eat, always.
Tel Aviv I really do think has a beautiful blend going for it. It's right by the coast, seems to have some decent forested parks but is also in a semi arid setting or near it which I think lends itself to a very beautiful mix of nature. Plus, you have the super historic (Jaffa sea port), the gritty yet cool and urbane, bauhaus aesthetic, and the newer, hypermodern/vertical features. Just a super neat place, and I think the different aesthetics sort of match the multiple personalities the city itself has.
I certainly agree with you about London and Tokyo in that sense, but at the same time I think Hong Kong is a place that will still find it's stride and continue to grow with time. Right now, it is not technically a mega city yet (7M, I think), though I'm sure it will reach that point in a couple decades or so. With that said, I think it will evolve very much with time. The mind boggling thing for me (and I'm 27 also, btw), is that I remember reading that the first skyscraper in HK went up in 1973? My brother was born in 1974? So literally, that city went from basically a British shipping/fishing port to what it is today in my brother's lifetime. That is just MIND BOGGLING to me, and in a sense, it is like a modern Rome or Constantinople to me as a result. It reflects the NOW so much, as so many other Chinese and other Asia-Pacific cities and even whole countries have followed the HK model since then that in my mind, that one city has brought 500 Million plus people above the global poverty line and from wherever they were, to somewhere much higher. That is moving to me. Perfect competition and exchange. The fact that if I remember right 1/4 of cell phones in Sub Saharan Africa or something of the sort originated in the Chungking Mansions area? Gives me goosebumps, in a good way. So I think you'll see that one continue to blossom, though I agree it is found it's stride more than those others.
Edit: Perhaps you can elaborate on the differences between Miami, Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach? I guess at first, Miami felt a bit too manufactured to me, though in looking more closely at the details, it's more unique than I would've thought, and also that isn't entirely a fair complaint, since much of Miami's growth (it was born as a city basically in the late 19th century), and so there wouldn't have been a ton of older construction, the best is being done with what they have. It does have a pretty good skyline, and some of the older Spanish revival stuff (especially in Coral Gables), is pretty neat. When I think of Miami, I think of a vibrant, diverse mix of cultures, and kind of a more dense urban living setting, almost in a way like it's 6th borough moniker, but I also think of many of these high rises perhaps being disconnected from the road at street level (being gated as a sense of exclusivity/giving people their space), and it also has perhaps more of a leafy, single family home neighborhood feel (though it is on a grid), in the surrounding neighborhoods, which are crisscrossed by broad streets like SW 8th, which though they perhaps look a bit more suburban, definitely have loads of unique businesses. It certainly is one of the more dense cities in the US (nearly the level Chicago has I think), though it reaches that in a different way, it perhaps has more confined areas of highrises, but yet also seems to have more lower density areas. West Palm Beach seems a bit more like a Sun Belt city (almost like a denser Orlando in it's set up), with even the CityPlace (?) mall which is kind of faux Venetian in appearance, however it has a nice little downtown strip, and like Miami and Fort Lauderdale, is just a bike ride across a bridge from the ocean. Fort Lauderdale seems to me to be a bit of a mix in terms of feel between Miami and West Palm Beach, though with the added canal set up near the water heading out towards the ocean (Miami has something similar, though not as expansive, in the form of places like Fisher and Star Islands). All 3 have very quick transitions between places where there are more rough neighborhoods and affluent ones, though the borders are visible and distinct. It does seem like a somewhat more blue collar and "living is tough" to stay afloat feel even amongst Middle class residents in Dade County though maybe that comes from not spending enough time there, but it seemed perhaps more stressful than Atlanta does, maybe I'm just attributing that to the fact that trees and rolling topography are more calming to me where coastline and a tropical aesthetic is more calming to others. Curious to hear your thoughts as well.
Last edited by theurbanfiles; 07-16-2018 at 06:14 AM..
I’m surprised that Melbourne is winning. I haven’t been to Tel Aviv but I would definitely prefer it. Tel Aviv has a nicer weather, beaches, genuine local food, close to interesting and amazing historic places, better location. I know the situation in israel with its neighbours is very volatile, but Tel Aviv is safe ( correct me if I’m wrong). I have heard nightlife is amazing and people are friendly. Sydney vs Tel Aviv would had been more interesting and I had chosen Sydney.
I’m surprised that Melbourne is winning. I haven’t been to Tel Aviv but I would definitely prefer it. Tel Aviv has a nicer weather, beaches, genuine local food, close to interesting and amazing historic places, better location. I know the situation in israel with its neighbours is very volatile, but Tel Aviv is safe ( correct me if I’m wrong). I have heard nightlife is amazing and people are friendly. Sydney vs Tel Aviv would had been more interesting and I had chosen Sydney.
Not surprising in the least. Melbourne has been rated the most livable city for several years in a row. It's very diverse with tons of culture, though perhaps a bit stale in some areas.
Tel Aviv is one of the party capitals of the Mediterranean, but it's location does put it in a sticky situation, though the place is mostly safe. It also acts as a great gateway to Israel.
Not surprising in the least. Melbourne has been rated the most livable city for several years in a row. It's very diverse with tons of culture, though perhaps a bit stale in some areas.
Tel Aviv is one of the party capitals of the Mediterranean, but it's location does put it in a sticky situation, though the place is mostly safe. It also acts as a great gateway to Israel.
Well, Melbourne has been locked down for several weeks now (can’t even leave your house after 8pm!. Melbourne also has the nanny state attitude. For the long term I guess I would prefer Melbourne because of the language and the job market seems better. But If I wanted to visit or live for a short term, my choice would be Tel Aviv. I really want to go. I have read mixed comments about Tel Aviv. Some said it’s racist, others that people are super nice.
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