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Well gosh, if you'd like to be known as a legal writer, so be it...but I suspect that people don't come to you and retain your services because you write but because of your knowledge of the law...
Can I find any of your writing on the bookshelves of a public library?? Or in a general interest bookstore? Or in a general interest periodical? Has your poetry been published anywhere?
To me you're a lawyer who writes legal briefs.
Now Scott Turow is both a lawyer AND a writer.
It's not snobbery, it's being specific as to professions. Many other professionals spend a lot of time writing, but they're still categorized according to their individual professions, whether doctor, lawyer, or Indian chief.
Advertising is the way to go. It pays well and, in good shops, requires a great deal of creativity. It also teaches you awareness of your audience at all times. Write Television and Radio and you learn dialog, not to mention the sound of words being read.
Now you're talkin'! Will definitely keep these options in mind.
Define a writer. I get paid to write. Is that not professional writing?
Today I will do nothing but write. I will get paid for it eventually. Does that fact that I also do other things on other days change that? If so then only a writer who does nothing else but write is making a living by writing? That means that there are only a few hundred writers.
Is a college professor who writes books a writer? If said college professor takes a paid sebatical for two years to write a novel, and it is published and becomes a best seller, are they making a living by writing? Or are they just a college professor who sometimes writes things?
By your definition only journalists, novelists, reporters, or free lance writers are writers? So someone who writes for a techinical magazine for a living is not a writer? They are certainly not a novelists or reporter. Maybe you would call them a journhalist. However a technical writer does not fit the standard definitions of "journalist" If a fireman writes a daily column for a newspaper are they a writer, or just a fireman who sometimes writes things? Apparently a writer must do nothing but wrtie full time, not part time with some other job. Otherwise they are just sou chefs who spend part of their time writing. If I submit an article to a newspaper and get paid $50 for it am I then a writer? But if I write a brief the next day and get paid $1500 for that I am not writing for a living?
It is a difficult definition. A waitress writes oders on her pad all day, but that does nto make her a writer. To me that is because she is paid to serve food not paid to write. If her memory was good enough she could get paid without writing. What then about a business manager who does nothing but write reports all day? Frankly, I think that he or she could say that they write for a living.
If someone writes copy for advertisments as the bulk of their work for an advertising company are they a writer? Why not?
This little exercise has led me to the realization that there may be more snobbery amongst people who call themselves writers than any other profession that I an think of (except maybe artists). Where else do you hear so much of "They do not qualify as a true writer because they do not do X" With X being whatever the person trying to make themselves feel elite does. I have heard this about technical writers, about text book writers, about an engineer who wrote a novel at night and on weekends, even about anyone who does not write fiction (journalists excluded because they mostly write fiction - for that matter, a lot of lawyers write mostly fiction - are they writers?).
You do not have to sit around in coffee shops with greasey hair and scribble on notepads all day or sagely discuss trendy artsy things with other "writers" to be a writer. Actually the best novel writer that I know personally is the engineer mentioned above who wrote a novel on weekends and at night. By my definition anyone who writes for a living is a writer. Anyone who gets paid for writing something is a writer. They do not have to be full time, they do not have to write in some particular style or for a particular employer.
The definition of a wrtier is one who writes, especially as an occupation. The bulk of my occupation is writing. I write more than most people who call themselves "writers" I get paid more for my writing than most people who call themselves "writers" The majority of my work is writing.
I would agree that is sounds funny to call me a writer. That is why I posted the original comment as a sarcastic or humourous comment. However why is one person who writes for a living a writer, while another is not? Apparently, only certain job titles qualify. Why is that?
Oooo... Hit a little sore point there, huh? Not my intention. You are of course entitled to your take on all of this. I'm not here to argue. Thanks for your post. Much food for thought--the good, the bad, and the ugly. Take care.
Hey everyone. Thanks for all your feedback and diverse viewpoints. I'm going to sign off (unless something very new comes up) and let you guys battle it out. That's not what I'm here for. Feel free to post more. I wish you all the best.
Well gosh, if you'd like to be known as a legal writer, so be it...but I suspect that people don't come to you and retain your services because you write but because of your knowledge of the law...
Well sometimes other lawyers come to me to write breifs for them. Especially appeallate beifs. they provide the law and outline arguments that they want to make and have me write for them. Not ver often, but it happens.
Can I find any of your writing on the bookshelves of a public library?? Or in a general interest bookstore? Or in a general interest periodical? Has your poetry been published anywhere?
Yes. to some of your questions. It depends to others. No to some. My writing can be found on the shelves of one public library that I can think of, and possibly in some public law librarys as well. I am not sure what a general interest periodical is, but I have had things published in newspapers and magazines. I did have a poem published in a book once long ago. I cannot remember what it was called. I do not much like most poetry. I like some classic poetry, but I have not encountered a modern poet who writes anything of merit. However I do not spend a lot of time reading books of modern poetry.
To me you're a lawyer who writes legal briefs.
We write a lot more than legal breifs. Today I wrote an argumentative breif, two settlement agrements, a contract, and three letters. How many "writers" write that much in a day?
Now Scott Turow is both a lawyer AND a writer.
That is redundant. If he is a good lawyer, he must also be a wirter. Most lawyers are writers who also know the law.
I believe that most lawyers are writers. Most of us have to be. Some are not very good writers, however some magazine or novel writers are not very good writers. In fact a whole lot of people who call themselves writers are not very good writers. A few are.
It's not snobbery, it's being specific as to professions. Many other professionals spend a lot of time writing, but they're still categorized according to their individual professions, whether doctor, lawyer, or Indian chief.
That is just the point. Writing is an occupation not a profession. Anyone can be a writer. A writer is a person who writes. If such a person gets paid for their writing, then they are a professional writer. However some people like to set themselves off and say "I am a writer and only people like me can be called writers" What I was pondering is what does it take? Do you have to publish a novel? Does it have to be fiction? How many articles do you need to have published? Do technical guides count? If I write books on how to comply with certain laws and the books are published and sold, am I a writer? If I write a booklet about how to fix a certain part of a car and that is published and sold to ten people am I a writer? If I have three articles published in magazines or the local paper each year does that make me a writer? What about if I write a column for the local paper every week for a year or two?
If someone writes a novel and pays to have it published so they can sell it to their friends, does that make them a writer? What if they make a profit on the sale of those books? If I did that and got my wife to put a copy of my book in the public library where she works, would I then be a writer?
A friend of mine started our local newspaper years ago and wrote all of the articles for it. Is she a writer? If she publishes my articles am I then a writer?
My daughter writes every day. She has written dozens of books many of which are over 100 pages long. She has not published anything unless you count quizilla. So is she a writer? When will she be qualified to be called a writer?
I am not sure that there is a definition of a "writer" it is subjective. Thus no one has any business saying that some other person is not a writer. It is like christians who say that this person or that person who purports to be a christian is not really a christia. who are they to say?
Interesting thread! I'm 50 years old, and I spent many years struggling with this question. I realized there are many related questions one needs to answer for oneself: What do you mean by "writing"? What is your definition of "making a living"? What motivates you to write (love of the creative process, purging personal demons, the hope of fame and fortune, etc.)?
I've written for fun since I was a kid, but when I decided, in my early 20s, that I wanted to become a professional writer, I had visions of being a wealthy, brilliant, best-selling, serio-comic novelist like Tom Robbins or Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. I wanted to be able to work from home and set my own hours. To pay the bills, I got into technical writing and editing, and eventually I was making a pretty good middle-class living, even working from home and setting my own hours for several years. But I still didn't consider it to be "real" writing. The one novel and several short stories I completed didn't sell. During my 30s, I switched to writing screenplays for an aspiring-producer/director friend in Hollywood. We had a few nibbles, but nothing ever sold. I had great fun writing those screenplays, but eventually I got married, took on stepkids, and stopped writing creatively. To earn a living, I wrote and edited technical manuals, computer training materials, and proposals. I've never been a freelancer -- these have all been full-time jobs with salaries and benefits. Now I manage an editorial department, but I still do some writing and editing.
So I've spent most of my career as a professional writer, and I've made a good living at it. Has it been what I envisioned during my early 20s? No. As I matured, though, I realized that I was never willing to starve for my art -- I wanted to be able to pay my bills, buy a house, travel, and have some savings in the bank. I also realized that I wasn't a burning, passionate Artiste who had Something Important to Say. I wrote because I loved creating characters and a plot, and using language creatively. It was what I did instead of playing chess, solving crossword puzzles, or building furniture. But I also accepted that I have a gift for clearly explaining difficult concepts to a variety of audiences, and instead of dismissing it as "what I do to pay the bills until I make it as a real writer," I now view it as something valuable and important that very few people are really good at it. As for my creative writing, I've found that any number of pursuits satisfy my creative needs: painting, photography, songwriting, home remodeling, and landscaping. The difference is that I no longer expect to make a living from them, and I'm perfectly happy being a dilettante. :-)
In another thread about calling oneself a writer (or not), I offered several categories of writer; it may be worthwhile to repeat them here.
There are wannabe writers, some of whom have the ability to actually be one, if they invest the effort. And some who do not.
There are hobby writers who enjoy the craft of translating thoughts into words, words into written documents, and written documents back into thoughts - even if they are the only reader.
There are paid writers who have actually gotten paid for the process noted immediately above. An occasional check does not a living make, however.
Finally, there are full-time professional writers who make a living at it. That can be a daily job, as in journalists, magazine staffers, copy writers and more. Or, it can be somebody living off the royalties of one or more books, even if they never scribble another syllable.
If I may be a titch cynical, anybody can be a wannabe, almost anybody can be a hobby writer, many can be paid writers; but darn few indeed can earn a living at this, whether by daily effort or by an overnight success.
Me? I've been selling magazine articles for 20+ years and have (self) published two novels that sell fairly well. I get checks or royalties almost monthly - but they don't pay many bills!
In another thread about calling oneself a writer (or not), I offered several categories of writer; it may be worthwhile to repeat them here.
There are wannabe writers, some of whom have the ability to actually be one, if they invest the effort. And some who do not.
There are hobby writers who enjoy the craft of translating thoughts into words, words into written documents, and written documents back into thoughts - even if they are the only reader.
There are paid writers who have actually gotten paid for the process noted immediately above. An occasional check does not a living make, however.
Finally, there are full-time professional writers who make a living at it. That can be a daily job, as in journalists, magazine staffers, copy writers and more. Or, it can be somebody living off the royalties of one or more books, even if they never scribble another syllable.
If I may be a titch cynical, anybody can be a wannabe, almost anybody can be a hobby writer, many can be paid writers; but darn few indeed can earn a living at this, whether by daily effort or by an overnight success.
Me? I've been selling magazine articles for 20+ years and have (self) published two novels that sell fairly well. I get checks or royalties almost monthly - but they don't pay many bills!
Wow. I am really digging this post, yes, even enough come back to the thread. I read your post on the other thread yesterday and was intrigued by this idea of having different categories or classifications. Given that paradigm, I would classify myself as a published writer who is well on her way toward, at the very least, making a part-time living as a professional writer. I love teaching, hosting, and performing too much to give that up and feel no need to prove myself by insisting that I pursue writing as a profession full-time.
Thanks for your post and for injecting new energy into this discussion. You may have shifted us out of this idea that if you are not a professional then you are not really a writer. Polarized, either-or thinking just doesn't work for me.
Yup. Just substitute "driver" for writer and it makes sense. Fifteen-year olds fairly lust to become drivers. Most folks drive without thinking much about it after they get licensed. Some get commercial licenses and become professional drivers. And then there are those Indy or NASCAR types ...
Or think "pilot." Lots of wannabes, some private pilots, a few commercial pilots - and then military combat types. And astronauts.
Nothing wrong with any of them, really. They are all what they can name themselves; writers, drivers and pilots of any flavor are all being truthful.
I write grant proposals for a social services nonprofit agency.
I was a newspaper reporter and editor for 16 years, and I don't miss it one bit.
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Even the cynicism is helpful. lol. Tells me what kinds of negative core beliefs I would have to bypass or overcome if I were to pursue writing as a career.
LMAO ... In my business, cynicism and skepticism are helpful things indeed.
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