Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
There are a LOT of states that have state-owned liquor stores - Ohio is one too. And MANY states cannot sell on Sunday and even in Wyo the state shortens the hours a bar can be open. Have to close by midnight & can't open until noon as compared to 10 AM to 2 AM (OK - I knew that while I still drank, but quit 20 years ago but think is still the same...). But state owned liquor stores is not an LDS influence. Is a product of prohibition more than anything. I would NEVER figure out how to go to a club or restaurant "who served" in Utah to drink! LOl!!! Good thing I didn't need to know back then!
In the late 70's I was living with a gal in Vernal, Utah. One of the more communities accepting of non mormons.. To a point. In that time. This gal decided to join a church. I didn't go. I was 19 I think at the time. She went and did the church thing. I was gone alot with work. We'd been there about 7 months. I got a letter from the church. It was a letter stating real close to what I made for a yearly amount. And what their projected tithe for me was going to be. If I didn't want to pay in money (they also had the back amount of what I owed since my girlfriend joined them), I could work it off at their direction. For a set amount.
I went to the church and found the person responsible for the letter. Lets just say I never got another letter from them, my girlfriend left, I am sure the three folks I talked to learned some new oilfield words and unique sentence compilement that afternoon.
I did miss the fruit baskets we'd find sitting on the front steps of the house from time to time.
Another time, and in other instances since. I was at a mormons house. I had business dealings with the main man. I was invited to eat. I was slightly into the meal, and noticed no young children or women were eating. Only some of the women were serving the food. I was told they waited until we were done eating. Then they ate.
Hey, how about another? I have two friends that married mormon boys. I went to one's house once with her sister. On the wall in the kitchen, I was shown a "To Do" list. It had the list, in sequence of dailey chores that were to be done and some had times to do them, on the list. I guess she got in trouble for showing us the list and around the house, her own sister.
I am going to stop here. I could go on.
I will say that on the other side I had a very good friend get hurt in the early 80's. He was laid up and had some very expensive sugeries. He was a member of the church in good standing. They paid the medical bills, and house and utilities and living expenses for his family for over two years. And worked out a repayment plan with him.
Lived in Alpine for 3 years; that area is heavily LDS. As far as frequently Mormon run businesses, you could not find nicer people. In fact, never had a bad experience as far as casual acquaintences. I do object to any area that is run by any church, whether it is LDS, Catholic, Baptist, etc. but do not resent people living and loving their religious beliefs. They just need to let me do my thing! Wyoming is great place for that! A bit conservative but Democratic caucuses this year have shown a much more liberal influence is taking hold. Problem with Wyoming is that once you learn to love it, you can't live anywhere else. Let's make sure it stays this way!
My daughter has a good friend who is Mormon, she doesn't go door to door, hardly ever goes to church but if she is in trouble all she has to do is go to the church and they help her. Now, isn't that christiananity? No matter what the religion is? she isn't any different from anyone else. She doesn't try to press her religion on anyone unlike others I know. By the way I am Lutheran does that mean I shouldn't be associated with?
Sorry don't wish to anger anyone but am not real good with words and am just trying to get my point across and isn't that what we're all about?? thanks
Lisan23, gotta ask a couple of questions...how old are you? Do you remember 1972 (pretty positive that was the year)? That is when BYU was forced by federal law to allow blacks to attend; they had been blocked from private LDS univ/colleges up to that point as the "dark skinned" ppl were cursed as they were followers of Nephi (read your Book of Mormon). I was ALMOST baptised into LDS faith in 1988 until RIGHT before the service - the font was full, everything set up, pianist playing pre-baptism music, when the bishop came and said I needed to come sign a few last minute papers. I don't remember what the first couple were but then the kicker came up - the release to allow the LDS higher-ups have access to financial information and PROMISING to tithe 10% of all gains. I told them it was none of their biz & was not going to make a promise I could not be SURE I could uphold. There was very passive-aggressive encouragement on the bishop's part. I walked out. I have a lot of friends who are LDS - I live in Cody - all of Big Horn Basin is HIGHLY LDS influenced from many angles - fighting allowing the lottery to be allowed in Wyo, which was approved by vote back in the late 80's or early 90's, the large families which is fine with me - in Wyo most kids move away because there isn't that much for them to do here anyway & then return when they have an education which I haven't a prob with at all, but then they have a large influence on the education in schools regarding health issues which should be up to individuals, not a religious zealot bringing wards together in school districts. There are also polygamist colonies in the eastern Big Horn basin of the fundumentalist mormons. Yes - there is strong influence here as in AZ, NV & other places. It isn't all bad. A lot of is is totally fine & great fam & Christian values. But I kind of think you feeling personally attacked. I don't think for the most part anybody is being personally attacked & very little really BAD has been mentioned. They are talking about an "influence" - not a take-over or coup d'tete. There is also a strong Mexican influence in Wyo - some of the best Mex food in the USA can be found in this state! And since when did LDS become a race??? Even Jews aren't a race, they are a religion that originated in Israel. And yes, some things are required in the LDS church if you want to receive a "temple recommend" or be "sealed" in marriage or as a fam. And I think a lot of speculation & distrust or misunderstanding comes from the secret rituals in the temples. Is like you have to show purity or something to get a recommend yet the only perfect human who ever lived was of course Jesus Christ. So...all I can say is settle down a little & read what is written & blow off things that are offensive & appear ignorant. Pick your fights carefully; most aren't worth the energy it takes.
First, after donig some research, blacks had been accepted to BYU before the 1970's, however not openly. They admittied about one a year, and several of the faculty as well as the students protested this decision. (And yes, they were mormons.) Here's my source: Intercollegiate Athletics (http://www.signaturebookslibrary.org/byu/chapter7.htm - broken link). I can find no evidence to support your statement in which you say they were forced by the government to allow blacks to attend the university. Additionally, I personally do not like BYU. Yes, I'm LDS, but that doesn't mean that I have to like BYU or ever consider even attending the school.
Second, the color of the skin is actually an initial reference to Cain and Abel in the bible, however the LDS religion believes that a curse was placed on those who chose to follow Laman and Lemuel... Nephi was the good guy. (Seems you forgot that.)
Third, I have questioned numerous people on a form that requires someone getting baptized to release their financial information as well as obligate them to 10% of their income. Included in the questioning was my dad who is a convert from Africa as well as a missionary who served in the early 80's, my mom who also served a mission in Canada in the late 70's, several members who have served missions throughout the last 30 years, as well as a current bishop and several men who have been bishops over the last 20 years. (I live in Utah so of course, these people are in abundance.) Not a single one of them have heard of such a form, and to be quite honest, with the inaccuracy of the information you posted I highly doubt your memory on this information is accurate as well. The only question you will have about your income or your tithes is once a year, and it's "Have you paid a full tithe this year?". The answer is yes or no, they trust you to be honest. They do not access your financial records in any way, shape, or form. Additionally, the form makes no sense because a lot of members are 8 years old when they are baptized. They don't sign a thing and almost rarely sign anything except in situations where there is a legal issue involving the church. (The only reason I even mention this is because my husband happens to be in one of those legal situations as he is not a member however the mother of his son is. Anytime the church wants to do anything regarding my husband son they have to have a letter with my husbands signature that is notarized.)
I'm not offended... besides wyoman trying to say that LDS people are racist. And I just wanted to respond to the inaccuracies of your post. If you insist on responding to prove I'm wrong, please provide some sort of source for your findings as I'm interested in seeing it - especially on the federal government forcing BYU to allow blacks since I couldn't find anything.
Nice try WyoMama, but blacks were never blocked from attending BYU or from attending any church services for that matter, nor were they denied membership in the LDS church. Unfortunately they were not extended the priviliege of holding the priesthood within the church until the 70s. It was the brethren in leadership at that time, who reflected what most of the general membership of the Church felt, who worked to change that. And what a great change that was.
Secondly, I have never heard of anyone having to sign anything before they were baptized, least of all in regards to divulging one's financial information or committing in writing to pay tithing. No one does that. I never did. Sure, paying tithing is something we are encouraged to do. (We believe it's a commandment, an ancient law. Abraham paid it in the Old Testament, etc.) But it is up to the individual. Completely voluntary. No one keeps track of anyone's financial earnings in the LDS church, and no one is strong-armed into paying tithing. It's between an individual and the Lord.
Sorry shadowwalker, but your story about tithing doesn't fly with me either. I know plenty of people, myself included, who haven't paid tithing for several years, and there is absolutely no policy in regards to paying back what you "owe". You never owe anything. You start where you're at, when and if you choose to pay. No one in the LDS church keeps track of any member's financial earnings. So why would they keep track of someone's earnings who isn't a member?
There aren't any blacks mentioned in the Book of Mormon. It's the history of ancient America, ancestors of Native Americans, about the Savior's visit to the people on the American continent after His resurrection. Mormon was one of those ancient Americans, a historian who helped compile the record, hence the name. I've read it through so many times I've lost count...
Also, I have never in my life met anyone belonging to the LDS church (or out of it) who requires women to wait to eat (and serve food in the meantime) until after the men have eaten. Sorry, but that certainly is not a characteristic reflective of LDS beliefs. Don't attach it to us.
We hold our temples to be sacred, not secret. I have been in many. For me, the temple is the most beautiful, peaceful place I have ever been in to get away from the busyness of life. I am reminded of God's love for all His children, His plan for us. It's a time for me to step back and reflect on the eternal perspective of life, not just the here and now. There is only good that occurs there.
Before any temple is dedicated anywhere in the world, it is open to the general public to tour and to ask questions. But once they are dedicated, an individual must be trying to live by a higher standard before they can walk right on in. You see how easily our most basic beliefs are twisted and intentionally falsified. It makes sense to me that a place that is sacred to us is kept that way.
You're right about that one thing though WyoMama. I too believe that the only perfect person to have ever walked the earth is Jesus Christ. And if perfection were a requirement to enter the temple, it would certainly be an empty place. If it were a requirement for any church service in any religion, all our church buildings would be collecting dust and cobwebs.
Well, I don't really care to get overly religious on a Wyoming forum, but when my beliefs are misconstrued or deliberately falsified, I feel compelled to clarify. The best source for accurate information about any faith is an active member of that faith.
Highlandlady, I keep trying to give you rep points to thank you for your kind words, but apparently I have to spread more around first (though I'm dishing it out all the time...) Just wanted to thank you...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clay Lady
Emeraldsky, there are some really wonderful things about small schools and some really horrible things about them as well. I am sorry you had such a horrible experience - that must have been hard to understand when your grades clearly spoke volumes. I am proud of you going into the teaching profession. Teachers are a very important part of a child's life - very often leaving a lasting impression. I feel confident that YOU will be a positive influence to the children that cross your path. Big hug!
I appreciate your kind words as well Clay Lady. Really though, I had a great time overall at that school. Many good memories. Made several close friends I still keep in touch with. I really try not to focus on the negative in life. It was just one of those defining moments in my life... realized how some people are... but for the most part I think most people are above that.
Thanks for your support in regards to teaching. I was so grateful recently to receive my WY teacher's license/certification. To teach K-6th! I am so happy. It is a privilege to work with children and I will give it all I've got. I've got a lot of work ahead of me...
Thriftylady. I would like to let you know about my personal reference of Mormon Influence. Not gettin a loan for a house, but having that ability in a town 35 miles away. For almost twice the loan amount,to live in the town you couldn't get one in. Watching people not get hired at private and public jobs, again not mormon. Jobs were filled by lesser qualified church members. Watching people not get professional licenses in the city. Because of church. I mean like chiropractor, palmastry,construction contractor,watkins distributor,grocery store. Watching church members get extra days off, paid time off, extensions on vacations. Not offered to non mormon employees with more time and higher positions on the ladder of management. Having mormons get new equipment to do their jobs, and again. Non mormons with more time and higher job positions at company got left overs or used stuff. Watched mormon members get higher wages or padded time clock hours, because of church. I personally was told at one job that I was not to question mormon time cards when they "wrote in their time" on the cards. I had to make non members cards were non questionable for the boss to o.k.
Higher prices on private sales of material things to non mormons. Housing rentals closed off to non mormon members-yah, just try to prove this sometime. Hunting on private land closed to non members. Or charged for when non mormon, and free to chuch members. The sale of houses and land higher to non mormons. I have seen public and private businesses give contract and bids to mormon members, and the non mormons had lower bids and just as good work ethics and reputations.
I could go on. But is that enough. I have personally seen or been subject to all this in northwest wyoming. And eastern utah.
Thriftylady. I would like to let you know about my personal reference of Mormon Influence. Not gettin a loan for a house, but having that ability in a town 35 miles away. For almost twice the loan amount,to live in the town you couldn't get one in. Watching people not get hired at private and public jobs, again not mormon. Jobs were filled by lesser qualified church members. Watching people not get professional licenses in the city. Because of church. I mean like chiropractor, palmastry,construction contractor,watkins distributor,grocery store. Watching church members get extra days off, paid time off, extensions on vacations. Not offered to non mormon employees with more time and higher positions on the ladder of management. Having mormons get new equipment to do their jobs, and again. Non mormons with more time and higher job positions at company got left overs or used stuff. Watched mormon members get higher wages or padded time clock hours, because of church. I personally was told at one job that I was not to question mormon time cards when they "wrote in their time" on the cards. I had to make non members cards were non questionable for the boss to o.k.
Higher prices on private sales of material things to non mormons. Housing rentals closed off to non mormon members-yah, just try to prove this sometime. Hunting on private land closed to non members. Or charged for when non mormon, and free to chuch members. The sale of houses and land higher to non mormons. I have seen public and private businesses give contract and bids to mormon members, and the non mormons had lower bids and just as good work ethics and reputations.
I could go on. But is that enough. I have personally seen or been subject to all this in northwest wyoming. And eastern utah.
Just about everything you reference in that article is illegal to do. Have you reported it? Have you gotten a lawyer? Have you done anything about it? I'm less inclined to believe you if nothing has been done about the problems. If what you say is truly going on there's plenty of ways to prove it. And your line about how mormons get into rentals and non mormons don't is a joke. I'm Mormon and I'm on waiting lists at several apartments and rentals, behind average people. Just because I'm mormon no one bumped me up on the list.
I believe that if you do nothing about these problems then you are just as guilty as those who create the problems as you take no action to stop it.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
