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I thought it was funny that you asked him why he thought they were pretentious and then backed it up with a 7-paragraph discertation on the nuances of stemware. I'm sure he sees the light now, in fact I can picture him swirling for legs as I type this...
even red wine is normally best at "cellar" temperature of about 60 degrees F
Excellent point.
I once nearly got into a fight with my know-it-all brother-in-law regarding this. It was common knowledge to him that a red wine should be served at room temperature. At the time, room temp was about 80 degrees because there were several of us cooking in a small, hot kitchen in a hotel suite. The bottle was sitting next to a hot stove. I put the bottle in the fridge and he freaked out. My solution was to pour myself a glass and stick it in the freezer.
Even worse is that most restaurants will serve you room-temp red wine. It is totally awful. All you taste is alcohol. On the very rare occasion that I order wine at a restaurant (I feel it's a huge rip-off), I tell them to chill it for at least ten minutes. The server usually looks at me weird, but obliges. At home, I use a chilling sleeve from the freezer. I put the bottle in that, let it sit for maybe ten minutes, then pour it. It's too cold at that point, but it warms as it aerates. By the time we're ready to drink it, it's gotten to the correct temp.
Red wine should be served in the low 60s at the very warmest. The room temperature myth needs to die unceremoniously.
Wow, I refrigerate red wine because it always seemed to taste better. I guess I stumbled onto orthodoxy. For most table wine if it's just for serving myself I go ahead and use a lowball glass. Sometimes I'll use a stem, though. It is nice to drink from one, with the bowl collecting the aroma. Even a cheap wine tastes better and I really slow down sipping it, because I'm smelling it more while I'm drinking.
In fact, for poorer quality wine I kind of slow down and start searching for the better qualities instead of holding my nose and slugging it. Makes no sense to sit there and moan. Just give yourself time to look (taste) closer. Somebody bottled it. Assuming it's not just spoilage, somebody was proud of it. What was the maker proud of?
I thought it was funny that you asked him why he thought they were pretentious and then backed it up with a 7-paragraph discertation on the nuances of stemware. I'm sure he sees the light now, in fact I can picture him swirling for legs as I type this...
Two things...
1) I could have simply answered "Using wine glasses makes wine taste better," but I thought adding some detail would be useful for people who were interested in knowing WHY they make wine taste better. It's a very easy thing to demonstrate to people in person, but a lot harder to accomplish with language alone.
2) The idea that using a wine glass is pretentious deserved to be countered. The definition of pretentious is:
"Attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed."
I genuinely feel most people use wine glasses to enhance their enjoyment of wine, rather than to impress others, and that's a valid reason. I tried to keep my explanation straightforward and practical, for those readers who don't know the whys and wherefores, but are interested in learning a bit more.
I didn't go into subtleties of wine drinking such as "swirling for legs" or " terroir" or "hard palate vs. soft palate" because that would just be pretentious for people who don't understand the basics, like which is the red wine glass and which is the white.
And clearly the person who said he uses a pint glass, which can hold more than half a bottle of wine, or about 3 standard drink (i.e., 1.8 oz. pure alcohol), and pounds it down before it can warm up, is not looking for subtleties at all. So that's entirely the right glass for his purposes.
Wow, I refrigerate red wine because it always seemed to taste better. I guess I stumbled onto orthodoxy.
Wellllll, yes and no. Refrigerators normally maintain temperatures below 40 degrees F, which is too cold for full enjoyment of wine. You need to leave a refrigerated bottle out for a half hour or so before you drink it to get it up to the range of full flavor. In simplistic terms, white wine should be chilled but not cold, and red wine should be cool, not chilled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunjee
For most table wine if it's just for serving myself I go ahead and use a lowball glass. Sometimes I'll use a stem, though. It is nice to drink from one, with the bowl collecting the aroma. Even a cheap wine tastes better and I really slow down sipping it, because I'm smelling it more while I'm drinking.
Exactly. And that is one of the most fundamental things to learn about wine, in the sense that much else about the enjoyment of better wines builds on that point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunjee
In fact, for poorer quality wine I kind of slow down and start searching for the better qualities instead of holding my nose and slugging it. Makes no sense to sit there and moan. Just give yourself time to look (taste) closer. Somebody bottled it. Assuming it's not just spoilage, somebody was proud of it. What was the maker proud of?
Good for you. In that regard, you may be more sophisticated than I am. Sometimes a wine just doesn't appeal to me, and I don't drink it.
I once nearly got into a fight with my know-it-all brother-in-law regarding this. It was common knowledge to him that a red wine should be served at room temperature. At the time, room temp was about 80 degrees because there were several of us cooking in a small, hot kitchen in a hotel suite. The bottle was sitting next to a hot stove. I put the bottle in the fridge and he freaked out.
Why did you put up with such nonsense? Didn't you have a knife handy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Globe199
Even worse is that most restaurants will serve you room-temp red wine. It is totally awful. All you taste is alcohol. On the very rare occasion that I order wine at a restaurant (I feel it's a huge rip-off), I tell them to chill it for at least ten minutes. The server usually looks at me weird, but obliges.
Yeah, restaurants typically mark up wine 3X - 4X over retail prices. With that markup, and its impact on a restaurant's bottom line, you'd think they'd train their servers better, wouldn't you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Globe199
At home, I use a chilling sleeve from the freezer. I put the bottle in that, let it sit for maybe ten minutes, then pour it. It's too cold at that point, but it warms as it aerates. By the time we're ready to drink it, it's gotten to the correct temp.
My favorite wine merchant has a chiller tub you can use to cool a bottle down if you're going to be drinking it soon. Such a nice touch!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Globe199
Red wine should be served in the low 60s at the very warmest. The room temperature myth needs to die unceremoniously.
The problem is that when the "room temperature" terminology came into common usage, room temperatures often WERE in the 60s. A better term for today is "cellar temperature."
I have stemless wine glasses. Works for me. Also? I keep a small wine chiller (holds 10 bottles) just for reds we drink regularly. 64 degrees.
I'm not into stemless glasses -- you don't want your hand heating the wine. They also make it harder to view the wine in the light. Seems like a fad that should end soon. Manufacturers probably like them because they're cheaper/easier to make and ship than real glasses.
Why do you think they are pretentious? Stemware was designed to preserve the serving temperature of fine wine and present the complex taste of wine to its best advantage as you slowly enjoy it....
I have a foundation of knowledge and know the ins and outs. Anything I don't know I can easily learn because I already have the contextual education.
I should have mentioned in my first post that I also dislike how America makes wine prententious overall, and how restaurants mark up wine 3 to 4 times what it costs retail, making it impractcal to drink while dining out (as you mentioned).
Let me put it this way, most of us know there's such a thing as a formal dinner, with lots of rules and etiquette, but how many people who go all-formal with their everyday wine do so with their everyday dinner? Think about that.
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