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You need both really. Naturolpaths usually are better at handing chronic illness while allopaths cannot be beat for emergencies and situations where a person needs surgery. That's why the best is probably integrative medicine. I wish the two sides would stop being on two sides and work together more often. There's good to be said about each, but better when combined.
N.D.s spend just as many years in medical school that primary care doctors do and they are trained to do minor surgery and in childbirth in addition to the broad area of health, preventative and reversal of chronic and degenerate diseases. Bastyr University has a highly respected program in this country. Doctor of Naturopathic Medicine | Bastyr University
They are almost non-existent for Naturopathic doctors and almost a regular occurrence with Medical doctors indicating a high incidence of unhappy customers which shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
ND's DON'T spend as many years in training as primary care doctors do....Medical School is only the beginning of training for MD's not the end like ND's... the real training occurs in Residency which can range from 3 years to 10 years depending on specialty...
ND's are absolutely NOT allowed to participate in childbirth and are not even licensed professionals in most states...as in the vast majority of states...
Bastyr may be "highly respected" among naturopaths and their followers, by the rest of the world...not so much
US News and World Report didn't even bother to rank it...its a "school" of 267 students for crying out loud...well respected?? LMAO Bastyr University | Best College | US News
Did you even read the link you posted about lawsuits and MD's....doesn't really support your position....you should really not link to sciencebasedmedicine.org....they kind of ridicule naturopathic medicine at every opportunity...
As for relative rates of "malpractice" ND's are off the charts when one considers there "is no standard of care" to hold Naturopaths to because they essentially "make it up as they go along"
There is also a factor of scale involved here....only 16 states actually allow ND practice and various estimates put the number of ND's at around 2500 TOTAL in the US....compare that to around 900000 MD's
You need both really. Naturolpaths usually are better at handing chronic illness while allopaths cannot be beat for emergencies and situations where a person needs surgery. That's why the best is probably integrative medicine. I wish the two sides would stop being on two sides and work together more often. There's good to be said about each, but better when combined.
I know this is a "dirty word" on this forum but you can't say Naturopaths "are usually better at handling chronic illness" than allopaths without offering some PROOF of that statement..
Otherwise you need to say "in my opinion" ND's are better....
But if you are going to say it as a fact I can point you to plenty of information showing the harm done by ND's when trying to handle chronic illness...and there is plenty of "proof" of that....
HUH????? The article says the couple SELF-MEDICATED. They treated the child themselves. They didn't see ANY professional of any type. It says they purchased a supplement from a naturopath. It doesn't say they consulted a Naturopathic Doctor. There are many levels of naturopaths. Not all naturopaths have completed a 4 year post graduate doctorate program. I think you better reread the article.
What happened to this couple is no reflection on Naturopaths at all.They might have just stopped by a health food store owned by a naturopath and only spoke to a ckerk.
Whoops....so much for your "theories" about this being no reflection on Naturopaths
"Instead, the parents took Ezekiel to a licensed naturopath. His condition was dire. His mother recalled that his body was too stiff to be placed in a car seat, so Ezekiel was put on a mattress in the back of the car. The naturopath then gave a preparation of echinacea without performing a physical exam and did not instruct the parents to seek emergency medical attention. Ezekiel stopped breathing that evening.
Yesterday, we learned the identity of the naturopath who treated this child: Tracey (Pike) Tannis, a licensed ND in Alberta, Canada, and in “good standing.” She graduated from the Canadian College of Naturopathic Medicine in 2003, one of the seven “accredited” naturopathic schools in North America. Her practice interests include cancer, ozone therapy, chelation therapy, minor surgery, and pediatric care."
The author is very interesting by the way a little blurb about her, Britt Marie Hermes
I used to be a naturopathic doctor. For 3 years, I practiced “naturopathic medicine,” licensed in Washington and Arizona. I earned my degree at Bastyr University and then completed a one-year naturopathic residency in a private clinic. I stayed at this clinic until I moved to Tucson.
Naturopathic medicine is not what I was led to believe. I discovered that the profession functions as a system of indoctrination based on discredited ideas about health and medicine, full of anti-science rhetoric with many ineffective and dangerous practices.
I know this is a "dirty word" on this forum but you can't say Naturopaths "are usually better at handling chronic illness" than allopaths without offering some PROOF of that statement..
Otherwise you need to say "in my opinion" ND's are better....
But if you are going to say it as a fact I can point you to plenty of information showing the harm done by ND's when trying to handle chronic illness...and there is plenty of "proof" of that....
Okay, It is MY opinion and the opinion of many others that the best results would come from allowing naturopaths to treat most chronic illness --and that the ideal would be for both types of medical people to work together. One example is that for cancer you'd mostly need a cancer specialist but simultaneously, an acupuncturist can recommend herbs that will help the person to better tolerate the treatment. A GOOD acupuncturist--there are some not so good ones out there too. I was going to an amazing acupuncturist who was an MD in China but here he could only practice acupuncture. He told me he had a patient who'd had lung cancer for XX years--surviving with a combination of standard treatment combined with acupuncture and Chinese herbs to boost the immune system and to counteract any ill effects of the standard treatment. Both doctors worked together.
Also, there are good naturopaths and bad ones just as there are differences in MDs. I've been to some really great MDs and one or two have saved my life. Obviously I'm not against them. However, not one of the standard doctors has been any help at all with my chronic fatigue syndrome or insomnia. Also, it took years of going to MDs before I found an MD who specialized in fibromyalgia but he did cure me of it--and I'm forever grateful.
My best experience was with an MD who also used alternative medicine--she undid the damage that was done by a regular MD by using an alternative method that you would call by a name that's not allowed here. She used homeopathy--that's the day I became a believer in that sort of treatment. No, it was definitely not the placebo effect.
Oh--and once I had a regular MD who referred me to a holistic MD--the holistic MD was the son of a very famous MD and he knew his stuff. But he went beyond the ordinary and learned about nutrition and supplements-- also he employed an acupuncturist in his office.
That's why I think integrative medicine is ideal. If you go too far either way, you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Neither extreme is perfect but by using a combination and knowing when you need which type of treatment, you can do pretty well. As usual, the best lies somewhere in the middle and that is the opinion held my many, many people.
Whoops....so much for your "theories" about this being no reflection on Naturopaths
"Instead, the parents took Ezekiel to a licensed naturopath. His condition was dire. His mother recalled that his body was too stiff to be placed in a car seat, so Ezekiel was put on a mattress in the back of the car. The naturopath then gave a preparation of echinacea without performing a physical exam and did not instruct the parents to seek emergency medical attention. Ezekiel stopped breathing that evening.
Yesterday, we learned the identity of the naturopath who treated this child: Tracey (Pike) Tannis, a licensed ND in Alberta, Canada, and in “good standing.” She graduated from the Canadian College of Naturopathic Medicine in 2003, one of the seven “accredited” naturopathic schools in North America. Her practice interests include cancer, ozone therapy, chelation therapy, minor surgery, and pediatric care."
The author is very interesting by the way a little blurb about her, Britt Marie Hermes
I used to be a naturopathic doctor. For 3 years, I practiced “naturopathic medicine,” licensed in Washington and Arizona. I earned my degree at Bastyr University and then completed a one-year naturopathic residency in a private clinic. I stayed at this clinic until I moved to Tucson.
Naturopathic medicine is not what I was led to believe. I discovered that the profession functions as a system of indoctrination based on discredited ideas about health and medicine, full of anti-science rhetoric with many ineffective and dangerous practices.
And that case about that poor child is a case of idiocy. Parents who didn't vaccinate their child. I guess that's their choice but since they chose NOT to, then they should have realized that their kid would always be susceptible to illnesses that others wouldn't be. They knew they would always have to be more vigilant.
I can understand waiting a few days because they thought he had a cold or the flu but even their nurse friend told them to take him to a doctor. The naturopath is not at fault either--they are better suited for long term, chronic illnesses and prevention and are not the ones to call when it's been suggested that anyone might have something as serious as menningitis. Those parents are responsible for what happened to their son. They exercised very poor judgment and were too far to one extreme. With the sort of treatment they were using, their child was no better off than he would have been a century ago.
And that case about that poor child is a case of idiocy. Parents who didn't vaccinate their child. I guess that's their choice but since they chose NOT to, then they should have realized that their kid would always be susceptible to illnesses that others wouldn't be. They knew they would always have to be more vigilant.
I can understand waiting a few days because they thought he had a cold or the flu but even their nurse friend told them to take him to a doctor. The naturopath is not at fault either--they are better suited for long term, chronic illnesses and prevention and are not the ones to call when it's been suggested that anyone might have something as serious as menningitis. Those parents are responsible for what happened to their son. They exercised very poor judgment and were too far to one extreme. With the sort of treatment they were using, their child was no better off than he would have been a century ago.
By going to a naturopath for ANYTHING one is no better off than they would have been a century ago...they were using treatment directed by a naturopath
There is no evidence to suggest Naturopaths are good at ANYTHING, not managing chronic illness, acute illness...anything
There is no way this Naturopath can be absolved of responsibility in this child's death....the parent's took their child to what they "thought" was a healthcare professional....this "licensed professional" CHOSE not to examine a patient brought to them and failed to recognize a gravely ill child when she saw him and direct the parents to seek appropriate potentially life saving care..
People can't have it both ways....
Either Naturopaths are "better" at treating the "underlying cause of disease" or they aren't...
If a "licensed naturopath" can't recognize a patient, a child in this case, at deaths door then they shouldn't be allowed to treat anything more serious than a hang nail...ever
Many City-data posters may be unaware of the differences between M.D.s and N.Ds and probably aren't aware that medical doctors are trained very narrowly in medical school in something called allopathic medicine. Contrary to popular belief, they are NOT trained in various modes of medicine. They know very little about diet or wellness and rather are trained to treat symptoms of conditions with drugs, surgery, and radiation....
I am not sure that I have a dog in this fight as I use both mainstream medical doctors and treatments, and herbal medicine taken in consultation from a licensed doctor of Chinese medicine as well.
There are a couple of points that I think need to be clarified. It is not a case of Western medicine versus naturopathy. Naturopathy as it is practiced in the U.S. and by some Brits I am familiar with is just as much "Western" as what is being called Western or allopathic medicine.
Practicioners of traditional Chinese medicine are appalled at the simplicity and crudity of Western naturopathy.
Naturopaths frequently have zero idea of physiology, and are dangerously lacking in knowledge of mainstream medicine. We have a number of these practicioners where I live in Europe, mainly British and catering to a largely British expat clientele. One of the "practicioners" prescribed an herbal treatment for a man here recently, without ever asking him what medications he was taking!!!! In a week he was in the emergency ward of the hospital down the street because he was taking a pharmaceutical blood thinner that the "practicioner" didn't know about because she hadn't asked, and the herb that she prescribed also had strong blood thinning effects. The man was bleeding internally as a result of taking the herb.
I know a man who is licensed to practice Chinese medicine in the U.K. But he had to have an education in what we would call pre-med training in the UK for several years, and then he had to have formal training in an approved medical facility that used traditional Chinese medicine. The latter he received in China, and had to practice in a Chinese hospital as well before they would certify him. And he had to pass some sort of exam in the U.K. vis-a-vis his Chinese training, as I recall. Thus, he has training in physiology and biology, traditional Chinese medicine and does a thorough consultation with clients not only as to their symptoms, but treatments and medications of any sort that they have used or are using.
In the U.K. he practices in a mainstream hospital.
I feel that Western naturopathy has dangerously limited itself by taking an Us vs Them hostile posture just as much as it attributes the same to mainstream medicine in regard to naturopathy.
HUH????? The article says the couple SELF-MEDICATED. They treated the child themselves. They didn't see ANY professional of any type. It says they purchased a supplement from a naturopath. It doesn't say they consulted a Naturopathic Doctor. There are many levels of naturopaths. Not all naturopaths have completed a 4 year post graduate doctorate program. I think you better reread the article.
What happened to this couple is no reflection on Naturopaths at all.They might have just stopped by a health food store owned by a naturopath and only spoke to a ckerk.
I believe you are not correct.
The parents did consult a trained naturopath. But there is a question of whether the naturopath actually saw the child, and conflicting reports over whether she did or did not know that menengitis could be involved. A number of colleagues have requested an investigation of the consultation as a result of the death and the testimony at the trial.
You need both really. Naturolpaths usually are better at handing chronic illness while allopaths cannot be beat for emergencies and situations where a person needs surgery. That's why the best is probably integrative medicine. I wish the two sides would stop being on two sides and work together more often. There's good to be said about each, but better when combined.
I am with you!!!
My mainstream general physician is a German woman, and she has no problem with the judicious use of herbal remedies....but adamantly wants to know what they are. And she does not want me just blindly taking herbal remedies willy-nilly. There is fortunately an excellent, well educated man here to consult for traditional herbal medicine and he has zero problem talking with anyone's mainstream doctor.
She practices in the same hospital where a man almost died after taking an herbal remedy that caused him internal bleeding because he was already being prescribed a blood thinner.
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--and that the ideal would be for both types of medical people to work together. One example is that for cancer you'd mostly need a cancer specialist but simultaneously, an acupuncturist can recommend herbs that will help the person to better tolerate the treatment. A GOOD acupuncturist--there are some not so good ones out there too. I was going to an amazing acupuncturist who was an MD in China but here he could only practice acupuncture. He told me he had a patient who'd had lung cancer for XX years--surviving with a combination of standard treatment combined with acupuncture and Chinese herbs to boost the immune system and to counteract any ill effects of the standard treatment. Both doctors worked together. 
Those parents are responsible for what happened to their son. They exercised very poor judgment and were too far to one extreme. With the sort of treatment they were using, their child was no better off than he would have been a century ago.