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Old 06-07-2017, 07:53 PM
 
25,556 posts, read 23,965,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Why did you forget to mention 1912 when thousands of blacks were slaughtered by the then government. Cuban blacks played a strong role in fighting for that nation's independence, only to be tossed aside once afterward. When they began to complain this was the result.


Cuba also had significant levels of racial segregation, so was not that different from the USA outside of the South.
The Celia Cruz 80 episode series, produced and filmed in Colombia, shows the segregation and discrimination Celia faced because she was Black. Negras or mulatas weren't allowed in exclusive white establishments, even as entertainers. It was not until she became huge, and due to the support of her bandmates that she was able to push past these barriers.
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Old 06-08-2017, 10:15 AM
 
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Communism.
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Old 06-10-2017, 04:49 AM
 
345 posts, read 268,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
The Celia Cruz 80 episode series, produced and filmed in Colombia, shows the segregation and discrimination Celia faced because she was Black. Negras or mulatas weren't allowed in exclusive white establishments, even as entertainers. It was not until she became huge, and due to the support of her bandmates that she was able to push past these barriers.


Celia Cruz was middle class, his father a civil servant working in railroads, and they lived in a majoritarily white neighbourhood, Santo Suarez.

Black people were the main bulk of entertainers since the 17th century, they were present in every hall.

The other important singers at her time were also black, olga guillot, rita muntaner, perez prado, machito, bola de nieve, etc.

Apartheid was always forbidden by the Cuban constitution in PUBLIC premises, but in Cuba there were many private clubs and organizations organized around ethnic lines. Galician, Asturian, English, Basque, Chinese, Jewish, Lebanese, Blacks and Rich Blacks (Olympia).

In fact, communists -1959- were the ones that damaged black music and popular music, confiscated the great dancing halls and declared Cuban popular music "diversionist and bourgeois" and imposed the Troba - a joanbaezrish style that makes you puke. Cuban music survived abroad, in Mexico, NY......until allowed to reborn recently-compay segundo, etc.

Last edited by papuolo; 06-10-2017 at 05:06 AM..
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Old 06-10-2017, 04:57 AM
 
345 posts, read 268,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
The Celia Cruz 80 episode series, produced and filmed in Colombia, shows the segregation and discrimination Celia faced because she was Black. Negras or mulatas weren't allowed in exclusive white establishments, even as entertainers. It was not until she became huge, and due to the support of her bandmates that she was able to push past these barriers.



Wrong.....many people did not like her voice, and there were many competitors -also black. to be the lead singer at the Sonora Matancera.
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Old 06-10-2017, 05:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Rose View Post
It's stuck with a totalitarian Marxist government that makes very few of the necessary adjustments economically and socially. No freedom of speech and expression, freedom of assembly, no elections, extremely limited free market. The few free market jobs that exist there, mainly in the service industry, pay more than more important jobs such as being a doctor, which are stuck as poorly paid public sector jobs. It's basically proof positive that the free market works MUCH better than a centralized government economy. People there are given incentive to take tourism jobs rather than more productive jobs for society, plus there is unofficial racial discrimination in such jobs.

There's also an incentive for women to work as prostitutes even if they're highly educated and qualified because of the poor pay of public sector jobs and lack of private sector jobs outside of tourism. I'm not going to tell you that the previous dictator before Castro was a good guy or that there haven't been positive aspects of the revolution, but the country needs some serious reforms. Hell, even if they had remained totalitarian like China, but still made the necessary market reforms like China did, they would have been better off. I think there will continue to be minor reforms made there, but not nearly enough.


People take ANY job in which they can STEAL to make up a decent wage in a expensive city like Havana. They call it "merma" or faltante, so if the jobs pays 30 dollars and has a faltante of 300 dollars ..cucs...it might be very convenient. Those jobs are openly traded or granted by police, military to their family, mainly from the east. As to racial descrimination, when tourism started again during early 90's.....the beloved leaders thoght that blacks employees would scare tourists to death.....but tourist themselves complained because the absence of blacks so they hired some.

As to Batista, according to old Cubans...Batista was a person that did not mess with you if you did not mess with him...not the case of the last communist dictator. I have a mulatto driver -botero- that lived through Batista that always says that the only thing they had against him-white bourgeoisie- was that he was a mulatto, believed in santeria and was always after black vote..and of course, he was corrupt-as all. But anything beautiful still surviving in Havana was built by him.
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Old 06-10-2017, 06:11 AM
 
Location: Macao
16,257 posts, read 43,176,087 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papuolo View Post
People take ANY job in which they can STEAL to make up a decent wage in a expensive city like Havana. They call it "merma" or faltante, so if the jobs pays 30 dollars and has a faltante of 300 dollars ..cucs...it might be very convenient. Those jobs are openly traded or granted by police, military to their family, mainly from the east. As to racial descrimination, when tourism started again during early 90's.....the beloved leaders thoght that blacks employees would scare tourists to death.....but tourist themselves complained because the absence of blacks so they hired some.
I like this story. Yeah, if I only saw white employees everywhere in Cuba, that would feel very inauthentic to the expected Cuba experience.
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Old 06-10-2017, 07:47 AM
 
25,556 posts, read 23,965,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papuolo View Post
Celia Cruz was middle class, his father a civil servant working in railroads, and they lived in a majoritarily white neighbourhood, Santo Suarez.

Black people were the main bulk of entertainers since the 17th century, they were present in every hall.

The other important singers at her time were also black, olga guillot, rita muntaner, perez prado, machito, bola de nieve, etc.

Apartheid was always forbidden by the Cuban constitution in PUBLIC premises, but in Cuba there were many private clubs and organizations organized around ethnic lines. Galician, Asturian, English, Basque, Chinese, Jewish, Lebanese, Blacks and Rich Blacks (Olympia).

In fact, communists -1959- were the ones that damaged black music and popular music, confiscated the great dancing halls and declared Cuban popular music "diversionist and bourgeois" and imposed the Troba - a joanbaezrish style that makes you puke. Cuban music survived abroad, in Mexico, NY......until allowed to reborn recently-compay segundo, etc.
As presented by that series, presumably her family had to sign off on the rights, she was subject to substantial racism in the industry and in the segregated CUBA, including being turned away from certain clubs.

Automatically dismissing even the possibility she could have been subject to said racism shows you as a racist. You're wanting to deny something in order to present Cuba as something that it isn't.

Are you a Black Cuban? Are you speaking for all Black Cubans?
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Old 06-10-2017, 10:06 AM
 
25,556 posts, read 23,965,375 times
Reputation: 10120
Quote:
Originally Posted by papuolo View Post
Celia Cruz was middle class, his father a civil servant working in railroads, and they lived in a majoritarily white neighbourhood, Santo Suarez.

Black people were the main bulk of entertainers since the 17th century, they were present in every hall.

The other important singers at her time were also black, olga guillot, rita muntaner, perez prado, machito, bola de nieve, etc.

Apartheid was always forbidden by the Cuban constitution in PUBLIC premises, but in Cuba there were many private clubs and organizations organized around ethnic lines. Galician, Asturian, English, Basque, Chinese, Jewish, Lebanese, Blacks and Rich Blacks (Olympia).

In fact, communists -1959- were the ones that damaged black music and popular music, confiscated the great dancing halls and declared Cuban popular music "diversionist and bourgeois" and imposed the Troba - a joanbaezrish style that makes you puke. Cuban music survived abroad, in Mexico, NY......until allowed to reborn recently-compay segundo, etc.
In a nation which had slavery well into the 19th century? I doubt it. According to Gilberto Freire, a white Brazilian apologist, Black slaves were singing and dancing on the plantations of Latin America and playing like children? Generally Black Latin Americans make no such claims, of course and there are a number of Latin Americans who will speak on the historical racial oppression throughout the region which of course has changed due to activism against it.

Of course you can find white Southerners who claimed that they treated their slaves as a part of the family and that all was good in the US back in the good old days. Or Nazi sympathizers who paint Hitler in a positive light.

Re: Cuba, the Spanish worked the Natives literally death and imported African slaves. Don't try to claim all was well in a society based on the slave labor of Africans (producing sugar cane and rum). You had the same history as you had in other islands, and ironically when you go to museums TODAY in Santo Domingo they openly talk about slavery and the brutal oppression of African slaves used to grow sugar.
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Old 06-11-2017, 04:51 PM
 
345 posts, read 268,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
As presented by that series, presumably her family had to sign off on the rights, she was subject to substantial racism in the industry and in the segregated CUBA, including being turned away from certain clubs.

Automatically dismissing even the possibility she could have been subject to said racism shows you as a racist. You're wanting to deny something in order to present Cuba as something that it isn't.

Are you a Black Cuban? Are you speaking for all Black Cubans?


No, but I like Cuban music, and during the 30's, 40's and 50's Cuban music was almost entirely black, except country music which is redneckish.

Take a look at the most important singers at that time, Benny Moré, Arsenio, Barroso, Perez Prado, etc, etc.


Show business and cabarets were not segregated, such absurdity when Nat King Cole and Bola de Nieve - both blacks - were the best paid ones. You should stick to Manolo Escobar.

Last edited by papuolo; 06-11-2017 at 05:11 PM..
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Old 06-11-2017, 05:01 PM
 
345 posts, read 268,743 times
Reputation: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
I like this story. Yeah, if I only saw white employees everywhere in Cuba, that would feel very inauthentic to the expected Cuba experience.


That was the way until the late 90's, and the trend is back as hotels belong to the army....and army leaders tend to be white country bumpkins that employ all their families in hard currency jobs.
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