abducted 18-year-old Samantha Koenig in downtown Anchorage Saturday night (Metlakatla: apartment complex, taxation)

[Metlakatla]

Originally Posted by gobrien

I think jail is a deterrent for normal people to not commit crimes, but for those who enjoy killing people it is not. Look at Ted Bundy, who went from serial killing in the Pacific Northwest and Colorado, to escaping to the pro-death penalty State of Florida and becoming a mass murderer? He wasn't thinking very logically.

You're right. It isn't a deterrent. They're playing a game. The ones crying for the death penalty are failing to understand it really doesn't prevent this sort of crime at all.

[supernaut112]

Originally Posted by Metlakatla

Exactly. A lot of people believe that death penalty proponents are "bleeding hearts," when it really has nothing to do with mercy. It has to do with giving the state that particular power, or rather, our aversion to it, but I think it's too complex for a lot of people to understand.

Ah, I miss Alaskans.

And precisely my issue with the death penalty. If there's even the slightest chance that an innocent man is executed for a crime he didn't commit ... no way. No one should hold that much power. Certainly not organized government.

[krichton]

Wow, I'm kind of surprised they found her body so quickly after finding the suspect. Kind of eerie. It was obvious she was dead the moment it was reported that she was kidnapped, but I didn't expect them to find the body any time soon with all that snow up there. This is why you never get in the car of the person abducting you regardless if they have a gun trained on you.

[gobrien]

Originally Posted by JanND

I remember seeing a few people being ugly about the father on this forum. Course, you have to consider the source.
I felt so badly for him when I watched that video a few weeks ago. Does anyone know how he is doing.
We recently had a similar case in MT, near my N.D. home area. Such a tragedy.............such senseless tragic pain for a family and community. My prayers go out to Samantha's Father and your community.

I haven't read anything about how the father was doing, but can only imagine. Seems to me, losing a child, especially in this manner, would be unbearably horrible. There are some people in the community that want him to be able to keep the reward money. I hope he can.

[Metlakatla]

Originally Posted by krichton

Wow, I'm kind of surprised they found her body so quickly after finding the suspect. Kind of eerie. It was obvious she was dead the moment it was reported that she was kidnapped, but I didn't expect them to find the body any time soon with all that snow up there. This is why you never get in the car of the person abducting you regardless if they have a gun trained on you.

Don't blame it on her. We don't know for sure what happened, and neither do you. You don't know what you would have done in her place or what she could have done. It wasn't her fault for getting into the vehicle; she probably had didn't have the choice that you make it sound like she had.

[dcarrot]

Originally Posted by krichton

This is why you never get in the car of the person abducting you regardless if they have a gun trained on you.

This is the lesson for all of us.

[Metlakatla]

Originally Posted by dcarrot

This is the lesson for all of us.

Sorry, but we're talking about a small 18-year-old girl here. We don't know if a "gun was trained on her" -- do we? This happened late at night; there was probably no one else around. She could have been thrown into the vehicle. She probably had no choice in the matter.

[Metlakatla]

Every time something like this happens, it's the same BS. "If she only had a gun, if she only hadn't gotten into the car." Well, guess what. How about "if there only weren't sick sociopathic freaks out there who prey primarily on young women?"

Yes. If a sick freak tries to abduct you, fight back with all you have. Problem is, plenty of people have done exactly that and have ended up just as dead as a result. Doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it; it does mean that it offers no guarantees.

[Metlakatla]

Instead of saying that it's too bad that girls aren't armed and too bad that they can't fight back, we should perhaps consider saying that it's too bad that our boys are being raised to be sociopaths.

I hate to have to break it to some of you, but a gun isn't always the answer. These predators operate on the "element of surprise." Most of the time, the time that it would take to reach for a firearm simply doesn't exist.

As far as fighting back - -hell yeah. Kick and scream and raise the biggest fuss possible, provided that you have that chance.

But that's not usually an option, because predatory abduction rarely involves hand-to-hand combat. They usually come from behind and disable the victim before it ever gets to that point.

I know that there are things that women can do to protect themselves in the event of this type of encounter. And again, every time something like this happens, out comes the advice of kicking and fighting, having a gun, screaming, et al.

But guess what. More often than not, the attacker has already taken those things into consideration himself.

[gobrien]

Finding her body is not surprising, the "suspect" probably told them where to look or traced his cell phone. There are ways to teach people how to react in the face of violence, but most people do not think such a thing could happen, and even if you have been trained, it doesn't always work. I remember reading an article in Seventeen Magazine on techniques to deal with rapists and I was once in a very scary situation living in the lower 48 when I was in college. A friend of mine who lived on the other side of the adult student apartment complex was feeling sick late at night. She needed to borrow a roll of toilet paper. I walked over to her apartment and when I left, a man approached me and grabbed me and pulled me behind a building. I was able to remain calm and get the guy talking. I was lucky and he relaxed and told me what his problem was. He was looking for another girl who looked like me (and her husband) and apparently they owed him money. He was nuts and very irrational. Then I saw flashlights in the distance. It was the campus police and what saved me was that he had been bursting into people's apartments, so several people had already called them to report the guy. I was relieved and happy that I had calmed him down enough to let me go, but you never know what the criminal's intentions are or if you can handle them.