Have you seen what our legislature is up to now? (credit card, house)

[Java Jolt]

Originally Posted by kdog

Please explain the math behind that.

The math is in the OP's article link.

If your annual taxable income is up to $100,000 you will pay more, people making over $100,000 will pay less.

It's all summed up in the chart by income tier.

[Java Jolt]

Originally Posted by AzDreamer

Maybe you misread the facts about a flat tax. It taxes income at a flat rate. Someone making $1 a year will pay half what someone making $2 a year pays.

Compared to the current tax structure the lower and middle income people will still pay more.

An example would be people who make between $50,000 and $75,000 annually. The total tax in that tier is $299.9 million now, it would be $359.4 million with a flat tax.

For people making under $30,000 the amount they pay in taxes would increase the most.

Read the chart in the OP's article, it spells it all out.

[AzDreamer]

The original article ignores the effect of high tax rates in the long run.

High achievers leave states where success is punished. The end result is a state like California or New York where the tax base erodes and the only remaining taxpayers are the ones that can't afford to relocate.

[BillR1]

Originally Posted by AzDreamer

High achievers leave states where success is punished. The end result is a state like California or New York where the tax base erodes and the only remaining taxpayers are the ones that can't afford to relocate.

Well said! Fleecing the rich to provide for the poor IS socialism, pure and simple.
There is NO reason why the rich should have to pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than people who are less successful. A flat tax, along with the elimination of most deductions, is the only fair way to gather individual tax revenues. Taxes are everyone's responsibility, not just the wealthy.
The rich will be getting a tax cut, but they've been saddled with the vast majority of the tax burden for many years. It's time for the rest of us to pay our share. The rich will still be paying more, because they make more. But they should not have to pay a higher percentage than anyone else.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by AzDreamer

The original article ignores the effect of high tax rates in the long run.

High achievers leave states where success is punished. The end result is a state like California or New York where the tax base erodes and the only remaining taxpayers are the ones that can't afford to relocate.

High achievers would be more likely to live in states where there isn't a tax burden at all. Washington and Texas are two prime examples of states with no income tax, and the job markets are competitive due to both states being HQs for many reputable large corporations. This attracts a more skilled workforce ... and the result is higher wages & a bustling economy. There is absolutely no reason why Arizona can't eliminate its state income tax. The services that are currently funded via state income taxes could easily be streamlined and/or privatized.

[kdog]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

High achievers would be more likely to live in states where there isn't a tax burden at all. Washington and Texas are two prime examples of states with no income tax, and the job markets are competitive due to both states being HQs for many reputable large corporations.

Live where there's no tax burden at all!? Where are they gonna live, Gilligans Island? LOL!

Texas has no state income tax, but it has the 3rd highest PROPERTY taxes in the nation. NH has no state income tax, and guess what? Super high property taxes. Here's a news flash: It takes money to run a state! Choose your poison!

Oh, and the last time I checked, California is still chock-full of high achievers. Silicon Valley is still the intellectual powerhouse of the world.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by kdog

Live where there's no tax burden at all!? Where are they gonna live, Gilligans Island? LOL!

I meant state INCOME tax, smart aleck.

Originally Posted by kdog

Texas has no state income tax, but it has the 3rd highest PROPERTY taxes in the nation. NH has no state income tax, and guess what? Super high property taxes. Here's a news flash: It takes money to run a state! Choose your poison!

Oh, and the last time I checked, California is still chock-full of high achievers. Silicon Valley is still the intellectual powerhouse of the world.

Of course it costs money to run a state, but that shouldn't mean there should be taxation out the ying yang. Just because a state eliminates its income tax doesn't mean property or other taxes have to be raised. Ever hear of user fees? If you use the state parks, pay for them yourself. Use libraries? Pay for them yourself. Send your kids to public school? Pay for it yourself. Get the idea? The mere idea of anybody's income/benefits or property being taxed at all is socialism in itself.

[kdog]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

I meant state INCOME tax, smart aleck.

Of course it costs money to run a state, but that shouldn't mean there should be taxation out the ying yang. Just because a state eliminates its income tax doesn't mean property or other taxes have to be raised. Ever hear of user fees? If you use the state parks, pay for them yourself. Use libraries? Pay for them yourself. Send your kids to public school? Pay for it yourself. Get the idea?

Yeah, I get the idea. Let's add fire and police to the list too. Need a cop, get out your credit card! House on fire, oops, that's gonna cost you too. Oh sorry, no money? Burn baby, burn! Oh, and you're going to need a toll booth at the end of your driveway. All roads are private now you know.

Sounds like a hell of a place, Valley Native. Start your own country and let us know how that works out for you.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by kdog

Yeah, I get the idea. Let's add fire and police to the list too. Need a cop, get out your credit card! House on fire, oops, that's gonna cost you too. Oh sorry, no money? Burn baby, burn! Oh, and you're going to need a toll booth at the end of your driveway. All roads are private now you know.

Sounds like a hell of a place, Valley Native. Start your own country and let us know how that works out for you.

Privatized fire and police departments aren't so far fetched. Some places have experimented with this concept, and they have worked pretty well. Same with toll roads ... nothing wrong with paying for what one actually uses. Personally, I don't mind paying taxes for fire and police protection, but there are many other amenities which can easily be turned over to the private sector.

Oh, and if you are against the idea of user fees, but still want your government run services, why not experiement with Nevada's concept? They have no state income tax, reasonably low property taxes, but a fairly high sales tax rate. Guess what pays for a good share of their state services??? Arizona could thrive on a gaming industry, but the idiotic NIMBYs would likely kill that idea in a hurry.

[kdog]

Personally, I consider myself to be a high achiever and I don't mind paying taxes, be it income tax, property taxes, or sales tax. If I don't have enough money from my paycheck after I pay my bills, I just run a little leaner, or make more money. It's all about being a member of society. It's for the common good. I have enough money to send my kids to private school if I want. But at the same time, I like having neighbors whose kids go to good schools as well, neighbors that can't necessarily afford private schools. I don't want to live in a town of idiots.

High achievers tend to live in good school districts. The better the schools, the more valuable the real estate, and you'd be hard pressed to find examples to the contrary. I can tell you for a fact that if you created a state without public schools, you'd never get any respectable business to move there, or people for that matter. You'd never get it off the ground. High achievers couldn't be bothered with all the nickel-and-diming you pontificate. They want to work hard, earn money and raise their kids in a good community, and they're willing to pay their fair share to do it. End of story.