What if Arizona became a Pro Union State ?

[Potential_Landlord]

Originally Posted by visitor21

If Arizona become a pro-union state, then it might end up like pro-union (and highly successful) Germany!

Well, in Germany you get six weeks of paid vacation (mostly through union agreements) and six weeks of paid medical leave (mostly by law). I have actually seen more of the US when we still lived in Germany. However, my wife (who is US) and my mom (German) were constantly at war with each other so for my peace of mind having a few thousand miles between them is just awesome! There should be a union against mother-in-laws I guess.

[Howard Roark]

Oh please keep unions in California and along the east coast. If you want unions go elsewhere. Keep unions out of Arizona please. I know how they operate.

[Java Jolt]

What exactly do many of you have against unions?

I keep reading complaints about Arizona's wages are too low and anyone can be terminated for any reason.

Unions fight for decent wages and against unreasonable termination.

Does everyone like their paid time off, medical benefits, and clean working conditions? Thank the unions, they fought for those things a long time ago.

Do you want jobs to stay in America? Unions are strongly against offshoring and are for keeping the jobs at home.

I understand there are downsides of organized labor, striking workers and high labor costs are two unfortunate results, but unions have historically been beneficial for America and the average worker.

[Zathras]

Originally Posted by Java Jolt

What exactly do many of you have against unions?

Do you want jobs to stay in America? Unions are strongly against offshoring and are for keeping the jobs at home.

The unions can state that they are 'strongly against offshoring' - yet the high wages brought about by unions are one of the primary reasons that companies have sought offshore labor to remain competitive and profitable.
Don't get me wrong, I like a high wage as much as the next guy- but nothing happens in a vacuum.. and everything comes with a price. When you have 14-year olds in bangladesh willing to work 10 hour days at a buck an hour manufacturing a consumer product, it's tough to compete here at home. THAT's where your unions are needed in today's world- over in China and SE asia, not here in AZ.... good luck with that.

[Java Jolt]

Originally Posted by Zathras

The unions can state that they are 'strongly against offshoring' - yet the high wages brought about by unions are one of the primary reasons that companies have sought offshore labor to remain competitive and profitable.
Don't get me wrong, I like a high wage as much as the next guy- but nothing happens in a vacuum.. and everything comes with a price. When you have 14-year olds in bangladesh willing to work 10 hour days at a buck an hour manufacturing a consumer product, it's tough to compete here at home. THAT's where your unions are needed in today's world- over in China and SE asia, not here in AZ.... good luck with that.

Offshoring jobs to the third world is the result of corporate greed, not the unions that fight for decent wages and benefits for the working class.

Despite the double-dip recession, overpaid elitist CEOs are unwilling to cut back on their limousines, huge tax writeoffs, or their bonus checks that would make a Powerball winner jealous.

Unions have fought for higher wages and decent working conditions for many decades but exporting American jobs was never a major problem until about the last 10-20 years.

Exploiting 14 year-olds for a buck per hour in filthy conditions is a serious violation of child labor laws, but corporations get away with it because of them being overseas, again corporate greed plain and simple.

The attitude seems to be keep the huge profits coming but to heck with the employees who do the grunt work for these corporations and contribute to their profitability.

[stephen431]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Retail services, defense contractors (Honeywell, Boeing, Raytheon), chip makers (Intel), warehousing, transportation and distribution. With all the illegal/immigrant labor it would be hard for unions to make much of a stand in AZ. That is the main reason for allowing the illegals in as well as dumbing down the schools in AZ - uneducated, cheap labor to fuel the agriculture, construction, and retail sectors.

It'll be tough to unionize defense contractors. The wages are already pretty high there and no employee with at TS clearance is going to get involved in organizing when their employer who could easily make something up to strip their clearance.
I have a friend who works at Intel out here and he says they use a ton of H-1B employees.

I could see the other industries that you mentioned. And actually, transportation does have quite a few unions out here.

[visitor21]

Java Jolt and Zathras, I agree with both of you. It's all about extreme bottom line to maximize short term profits so CEO's , high end managers and big investors can maximized their bank accounts. The losers are the employees who are put into a corner. Thus, we need unions to back up the helpless employee. Should we always depend on a (paid) politician who write laws? Unions aren't perfect and they irritate me sometimes but we need them right now to keep workers (of the world) from being further abused. Here in Arizona, I know a handful of workers that would come in to work one day and then let go the same day without any advance notice. Temp jobs in Arizona?, I wouldn't be surprised if there's more temp jobs in AZ than full-time 'permanent' jobs.

Also, I believe Raytheon Missiles Systems in Tucson had a union strike few years ago...I don't know what ended the strike (fill me in if you want).

As for offshoring jobs, I think some countries require companies to hire a percentage (quota) of it's citizens in order to allow them to do business in their country. As I understand, the U.S. has minimal quota's.

[motormaker]

Originally Posted by stephen431

It'll be tough to unionize defense contractors. The wages are already pretty high there and no employee with at TS clearance is going to get involved in organizing when their employer who could easily make something up to strip their clearance.
I have a friend who works at Intel out here and he says they use a ton of H-1B employees.

I could see the other industries that you mentioned. And actually, transportation does have quite a few unions out here.

I'm pretty sure Boeing in AZ is unionized.

Arizona union backs Boeing bid against Airbus for air tankers - Bizjournals.com | Massachusetts AFL-CIO

[factoryrat]

I worked at Fords from 1964 til 1997. The UAW was a necessity. Management mainly promoted stooges like themselves. I couldn't imagine working there without protection from them. ALL the US government studies say that union shops are more productive than non-union ones. Kind of saving the idiots from themselves I always say. So much for those lazy slackers. Plus, Employee Involvement saved the company in the eighties. This was when management turned to the hourly, unionized employees for ideas. With this input the company soared & made record profits.
As for those bloated wages, the govt. AND FoMoCo say the percentage of labor in a car they make is the same as in 1946. About 6 or 7 I think. So what caused the prices of car to go so high? The usual factors: inflation, etc.
I notice most of the criticism of unions come from people who know very little about them.

[observer53]

This thread cannot seem to stay focused on the Arizona topic. General discussions belong in the general forums.