The Light Rail (Phoenix, Maricopa: apartments, renters, homes)

[sun queen]

Hey did any one hear on the news today that someone tagged the train? I wonder why this was news worthy? I would think tax payers would be happier to find out that the train was going to be free forever. I don't think the train is going to be convenient enough to benefit enough people. If you have to rely on public transportation you may need to take a bus to get to the train and take another one when you get off. This would be more expensive than driving a car to work. I think the train is a big mistake at the tax payers expense. What do u think?

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by sun queen

Hey did any one hear on the news today that someone tagged the train? I wonder why this was news worthy? I would think tax payers would be happier to find out that the train was going to be free forever. I don't think the train is going to be convenient enough to benefit enough people. If you have to rely on public transportation you may need to take a bus to get to the train and take another one when you get off. This would be more expensive than driving a car to work. I think the train is a big mistake at the tax payers expense. What do u think?

I suspect the Light Rail will do better than many people think

Just a premonition here---------and, I work in the automotive repair field.

[KarmaPhx]

It was tagged already? Great.

Do they have cameras or anything?

[observer53]

The cost of driving a car to work is more than just the gas, which until recently was bad enough! Many mass transit riders get free or subsidized bus cards, too, so the costs are less there, too.

I tend to agree with ArizonaBear. At least, I hope we are right! Getting people out of their cars is good in so many ways.

[miamiman]

Originally Posted by sun queen

Hey did any one hear on the news today that someone tagged the train? I wonder why this was news worthy?

Exactly. People should expect public transit to be tagged. Phoenix wants to be urban. Well, this is what comes with urbanity.

[LordBalfor]

Originally Posted by observer53

The cost of driving a car to work is more than just the gas, which until recently was bad enough! Many mass transit riders get free or subsidized bus cards, too, so the costs are less there, too.

I tend to agree with ArizonaBear. At least, I hope we are right! Getting people out of their cars is good in so many ways.

While I can't speak specifically on Phoenix's new train system, I can mention that Seattle too is soon to put a light rail system into use and bring up a couple of long-term aspects the anti-light-rail people never seem to address. Two of the major criticisms of light rail systems is always:

1) "We don't have the population density to support light and make it cost effective"

2) "The cost to build the system is too high"

The answers to these questions are really pretty straightforward -

1) "You don't have the population density YET - but do you really think that the population density of the city is NOT going to increase as time goes by?" The fact is virtually every American city has increased in density over time - areas that were single-family homes change over to low-rise apartments and eventually into high-rise apartments. When you build a light rail system it's not being just built for the way the city is TODAY, but also for expectations of what the city will be like TOMORROW - and such systems are generally built where the current population (and demand) is highest but (more importantly) they usually tend to held DRIVE where future development WILL occur since the convenience of being near (not NEXT too) such a line is generally a good selling point for renters and buyers.

2) "Yes purchasing all that right of way land is pretty darned expensives - BUT - assuming that #1 (that density will go up) is true, it stands to reason that - whatever the costs are NOW to buy that land, they will only go UP in the future and the sooner you build the system to the less that right of way cost will be."

Again, building a light rail system is NOT something that will give you an immediate payback. It's a long term investment in your city - something to help you guide your city's growth in the desired direction and along predefined routes (rather than just leaving it to chance) and position it for that growth so that as the population increases and the density goes up you have an infrastructure in place to support those changes. After all, in spite of the recent drop in gas prices, does anyone really believe that with China, India and the rest of the Third World modernizing rapidly (and thus certain to dramatically increase their use of gasoline) that the cost of driving a car is likely to go down?

Ken

[LordBalfor]

Originally Posted by miamiman

Exactly. People should expect public transit to be tagged. Phoenix wants to be urban. Well, this is what comes with urbanity.

Not necessarily.
As a teen I graduated from high school in 1973 out on Long Island about 100 miles or so outside New York City and in those days the subway trains were horribly tagged. Later that year I moved away - and I returned for a visit 25 years later, one of the things that struck me was the fact that NONE of the subway cars had any graffiti on them AT ALL. I have to say, I was STUNNED (but obviously pleased).

So, tagged trains are NOT necessarily a given. To be sure it requires considerable effort in regards to the security for the parked trained, but it CAN be done.

Ken

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by sun queen

Hey did any one hear on the news today that someone tagged the train? I wonder why this was news worthy? I would think tax payers would be happier to find out that the train was going to be free forever. I don't think the train is going to be convenient enough to benefit enough people. If you have to rely on public transportation you may need to take a bus to get to the train and take another one when you get off. This would be more expensive than driving a car to work. I think the train is a big mistake at the tax payers expense. What do u think?

Mixed opinions. Ever since light rail was approved in two separate phases, I had my doubts about it. For instance: where I live, it would not benefit me at all because the trains don't travel anywhere close to my residence (and no plans in the near future for any routes near my house). I'd be better off takes the dreaded buses to work.

However, saying it's a big mistake this early in the game is jumping to conclusions. It was, after all, passed TWICE by the voters in Maricopa County (two different phases). Were you present in 2000 and 2004 to cast your vote ... or are you another newcomer or non voter who is opposing light rail a little too late?!

[miamiman]

Originally Posted by LordBalfor

Not necessarily.
As a teen I graduated from high school in 1973 out on Long Island about 100 miles or so outside New York City and in those days the subway trains were horribly tagged. Later that year I moved away - and I returned for a visit 25 years later, one of the things that struck me was the fact that NONE of the subway cars had any graffiti on them AT ALL. I have to say, I was STUNNED (but obviously pleased).

So, tagged trains are NOT necessarily a given. To be sure it requires considerable effort in regards to the security for the parked trained, but it CAN be done.

Ken

That's because the trains are made of an anti-grafitti materials. If anyone tags trains, the spray paint can easily be removed.

[KarmaPhx]

Spray paint and markers can be removed easily, they have made cleaners that can just wipe the stuff right off.