Bad news if you need to replace your heat pump (Congress: credit, houses)

[chandlerguy]

I have bad news if you need a new heat pump for your house: If your heat pump is old (and that’s likely if you need to replace it) you will be told by air conditioner companies that you can’t buy HVAC equipment that uses R-22 Freon instead of R-410a. Unfortunately they are partially correct – and you will then find out that you will spend thousands of dollars to replace your entire system including air handlers, which are usually in the attic.


The difference in price will be thousands of dollars per heat pump -- some houses like mine have two of them.


I found a solution that worked for me, but I had to rush because as of January 1, 2010 A/C companies cannot even build R-22 equipment anymore, although they can make R-22 until at least 2020. For me, what worked is to buy a heat pump made by Goodman because they still have R-22 units in stock. I’m sure a few other companies do as well – but time isn’t on your side. If you need to replace your heat pump you need to do it now because time isn’t on your side.

Once HVAC companies sell all of their R-22 inventory you will be stuck picking up the tab for a new R-410a system and it will cost you thousands of dollars. If you are lucky you will get a $1500 rebate for doing so but you will spend many more times that to get cold air again.

Hot weather states like Arizona are going to take the brunt of this heavy handed environmentalism. Many people won’t be able to afford to fix their A/C – but that didn’t seem to bother the globalist conspirators that signed the Montreal Protocol signed in 1987. Those elitist environmental Nazis signed a phase out of R-22 even though they knew that we would be hit with huge fees. It’s an unfunded mandate that punishes poor people. I think at least part of the conspiracy was done by lobbyists for A/C companies that wanted to force people to spend more cash on new systems.

To read more about how Arizona residents as well as any other state where heat pumps are vital to living in hot climates read this:

http://www.airnowac.com/R22-R410A.pdf

If you think this bad Obama’s “cap and trade” will be much worse. This is just the beginning of the screw job that nutty liberals are forcing on the unsuspecting public.The insane thing about this consumer ripoff is that R-22 was developed to solve the ozone problem -- it was R-11 in old automobiles that were the problem. The wackos who signed the Montreal treaty simply didn't care about the hardship we would endure.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by chandlerguy

I have bad news if you need a new heat pump for your house: If your heat pump is old (and that’s likely if you need to replace it) you will be told by air conditioner companies that you can’t buy HVAC equipment that uses R-22 Freon instead of R-410a. Unfortunately they are partially correct – and you will then find out that you will spend thousands of dollars to replace your entire system including air handlers, which are usually in the attic.


The difference in price will be thousands of dollars per heat pump -- some houses like mine have two of them.


I found a solution that worked for me, but I had to rush because as of January 1, 2010 A/C companies cannot even build R-22 equipment anymore, although they can make R-22 until at least 2020. For me, what worked is to buy a heat pump made by Goodman because they still have R-22 units in stock. I’m sure a few other companies do as well – but time isn’t on your side. If you need to replace your heat pump you need to do it now because time isn’t on your side.

Once HVAC companies sell all of their R-22 inventory you will be stuck picking up the tab for a new R-410a system and it will cost you thousands of dollars. If you are lucky you will get a $1500 rebate for doing so but you will spend many more times that to get cold air again.

Hot weather states like Arizona are going to take the brunt of this heavy handed environmentalism. Many people won’t be able to afford to fix their A/C – but that didn’t seem to bother the globalist conspirators that signed the Montreal Protocol signed in 1987. Those elitist environmental Nazis signed a phase out of R-22 even though they knew that we would be hit with huge fees. It’s an unfunded mandate that punishes poor people. I think at least part of the conspiracy was done by lobbyists for A/C companies that wanted to force people to spend more cash on new systems.

To read more about how Arizona residents as well as any other state where heat pumps are vital to living in hot climates read this:

http://www.airnowac.com/R22-R410A.pdf

If you think this bad Obama’s “cap and trade” will be much worse. This is just the beginning of the screw job that nutty liberals are forcing on the unsuspecting public.The insane thing about this consumer ripoff is that R-22 was developed to solve the ozone problem -- it was R-11 in old automobiles that were the problem. The wackos who signed the Montreal treaty simply didn't care about the hardship we would endure.

Dumb move. What were you thinking? You should have purchased a high-efficiency 410a unit. It would have paid for itself over its life in lowered bills. Hopefully, your 22 system will not require too much service as R22 will be scarce as soon as next year. Time marches on; things change. Live with it.

[chandlerguy]

The slightly higher efficiency I could gain by using 410a won't pay for the huge investment I would have to make to replace the entire system. 410a has problems that make maintenance more expensive.

Overall R-410 is a ripoff for homeowners that have already has a R-22 system installed. Considering the huge number of homes built during the housing boom there will be a lot of them that will be caught in a serious bind. Some of them will be lucky because their air handlers can use both 410 and r22, but others like me would have no choice but to replace everything.

I made a smart move because I got good air conditioning without spending my 401k. There will be plenty of r-22 available but you are correct that the price may go up. House heat pumps leak very little freon so a price increase isn't likely to make me regret my decision.

[Boompa]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Dumb move. What were you thinking? You should have purchased a high-efficiency 410a unit. It would have paid for itself over its life in lowered bills. Hopefully, your 22 system will not require too much service as R22 will be scarce as soon as next year. Time marches on; things change. Live with it.

No it was the fault of Obama and the Commie, liberals. Certainly not him

[chandlerguy]

Originally Posted by Boompa

No it was the fault of Obama and the Commie, liberals. Certainly not him

You aren't very good at history. The Montreal protocol was signed in 1987. Reagan signed it, and the lefties in Congress cheered him on. This was the start of the neo-cons and rinos -- which is just another way of saying that there was a conspiracy of leftists, fascists, and elitists who conspired together.

[UrsusMinor]

Originally Posted by chandlerguy

It’s an unfunded mandate that punishes poor people.

Not only do you have all your facts wrong about politics, I'd like to point out that genuinely poor people don't own air conditioners. Or have electricity.

[ji603]

Big deal. Got quotes last year for R410a heatpumps at 4500 installed, to replace old condensor, handler, and furnace.

Pay a little bit less now, and try and keep an R22 system running in 10 years at xxx/lb for R22, or pay a little more now for a 410a unit, and have something that's serviceable without paying an arm and a leg when it actually needs service, and you can't find R22.

Too much crying wolf.

[Ponderosa]

I replaced mine last year with a 16 SEER 410a - inside and out. After the 1500 tax credit it cost about the same as an outdated R22 unit. I saved about 1/3 on my electric bill each month last summer, too. My budget payment plan has been cut 80 bucks a month in spite of the rate increases.

[chandlerguy]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

I replaced mine last year with a 16 SEER 410a - inside and out. After the 1500 tax credit it cost about the same as an outdated R22 unit. I saved about 1/3 on my electric bill each month last summer, too. My budget payment plan has been cut 80 bucks a month in spite of the rate increases.

More than likely they over estimated the cost of the R-22 system so you would buy into the 410 ripoff. If you are happy with your system that's all that matters -- especially since you think with government subsidies they cost the same. For many people like you 3 or 4 thousand dollars is not a big deal -- for others it might mean they do without air conditioning.

[chandlerguy]

Originally Posted by UrsusMinor

Not only do you have all your facts wrong about politics, I'd like to point out that genuinely poor people don't own air conditioners. Or have electricity.

Most poor people in Arizona have a/c, electricity, and HDTV. The ones that don't are usually homeless.