Miranda rights for Illegals.. (Phoenix: appointed, attorney, gated)

[Hunter Wold]

After spenting sometime in southern NM down by the border, hunting, I have had occassion to talk with the Border Patrol, and in a couple instances tip them off re some "people" walking around.
Asked how they handle them: Basically, searched, "processed", and returned to MX.
No Miranda rights etc.

NOW...if the ?illegals get to Phoenix or a town etc..and are stopped..for what ever reason, .then the process is different: Miranda right away...and with that then they have the right to an attorney or have one appointed for them...and then, booked and well into jail?...medical care, hearing, then what...not turned loose on the streets that's for sure.

So, if an ?illegal gets to say Phoenix they have made it to first base.

HW

[maximus1]

Originally Posted by Hunter Wold

After spenting sometime in southern NM down by the border, hunting, I have had occassion to talk with the Border Patrol, and in a couple instances tip them off re some "people" walking around.
Asked how they handle them: Basically, searched, "processed", and returned to MX.
No Miranda rights etc.

NOW...if the ?illegals get to Phoenix or a town etc..and are stopped..for what ever reason, .then the process is different: Miranda right away...and with that then they have the right to an attorney or have one appointed for them...and then, booked and well into jail?...medical care, hearing, then what...not turned loose on the streets that's for sure.

So, if an ?illegal gets to say Phoenix they have made it to first base.

HW

I don't think so. It really comes down to identification. Miranda rights won't stop that.

[rich67]

I think someone is placing too much emphasis on Miranda. Too much cop drama TV, I guess.
Miranda is only there solely to advise people of their right to an attorney and right to not make statements prior to questioning by any authority without an attorney present.
Miranda is not read each time an arrest or detention is made! The only time a law enforcement officer will read Miranda is IF he is going to ask any questions of the person (while he is in custody) pertaining to the investigation at hand. This does not include obtaining his basic pedigree information.
For instance, a cop sees a guy punch another person in the face, unprovoked. He arrests the perp, doesn't need to question him because he witnessed it, and locks him up.
In a miranda incident, the cop receives a report from the victim who says he was punched in the face by Joe Blow. Cop goes to Joe Blow who has a warrant for a traffic charge. Cop arrests Joe for the warrant, then asks him about the fight he had with the victim. Cop should have read Miranda to Blow before talking to him, since Blow was in CUSTODY and he was INTERROGATING him about a case. If he misses this, Blow can have any statement he made to the cop thrown out prior to court because Miranda was not followed. Keep in mind, CUSTODY and INTERROGATION have to be BOTH present for Miranda to be required. If a cop stops you on the street and starts asking you about a robbery down the street, he doesn't need to Mirandize you, unless you feel (or a reasonable person feels) that you were in custody (handcuffs, police station not free to leave, etc.).
And as Maximus stated, Miranda is nothing more than an admonishment given to those arrested advising them they can get an attorney before they answer any questions. This was an Arizona based case originally, Miranda v. Arizona - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Miranda means nothing in a case that has a preponderance of evidence indicating guilt. It only keeps certain statements made out of court if Miranda was not properly given. Pretty much tossing out confessions and that sort of thing. An illegal alien in America is pretty much an open and shut case for ICE and Border agents; there's really no need to interrogate someone detained or arrested for an immigration violation.

[wit-nit]

I thought only American Citizens had rights, not illegals.

[kerrymac]

Miranda is only for U.S. citizens..........No miranda needs to be given.

[ji603]

Originally Posted by kerrymac

Miranda is only for U.S. citizens..........No miranda needs to be given.

lol



Miranda applies to all in the country, citizenship notwithstanding. Foreigners actually have more rights, actually, in that following a custodial arrest, their consulate/embassy must be notified of their detention.

Plenty of case law to support both.

Miranda, as said by another poster, only need be given when the individual is in custody and being questioned.

[rich67]

Originally Posted by ji603

lol

Miranda applies to all in the country, citizenship notwithstanding. Foreigners actually have more rights, actually, in that following a custodial arrest, their consulate/embassy must be notified of their detention.

I wasn't aware of this. Can you post a link to something that states this has to be done? I thought the only time that a notification needs to be made to the consulate or embassy is if a consular OFFICIAL or DIPLOMAT is arrested or detained to be investigated for a crime. I was not awarethat this extends to those simply here on vacation or individuals here illegally. ICE needs to be notified if someone is here illegally, but I didn't think that any foreign national is extended this courtesy if arrested in the states.

[PacificFlights]

This is the exact wording from the US State Dept manual:




Summary of Requirements Pertaining to Foreign Nationals

1. When foreign nationals are arrested or detained, they must be advised of the right to have their consular officials notified.
2. In some cases, the nearest consular officials must be notified of the arrest or detention of a foreign national, regardless of the national's wishes.Consular officials are entitled to access to their nationals in detention, and are entitled to provide consular assistance.
3. 
   When a government official becomes aware of the death of a foreign national, consular officials must be notified.
4. When a guardianship or trusteeship is being considered with respect to a foreign national who is a minor or incompetent, consular officials must be notified.
5. When a foreign ship or aircraft wrecks or crashes, consular officials must be notified.

The following are the Notifications similar to Miranda:

Statements to Arrested or Detained Foreign Nationals
"Because of your nationality, we are required to notify your country's consular representatives here in the United States that you have been arrested or detained. After your consular officials are notified, they may call or visit you. You are not required to accept their assistance, but they may be able to help you obtain legal counsel and may contact your family and visit you in detention, among other things. We will be notifying your country's consular officials as soon as possible."

[nan5623]

Right ~~ arrested or detained ~~

"When foreign nationals are arrested or detained, they must be advised of the right to have their consular officials notified"

Not when stopped and asked for ID. that's the way I read it.

[rich67]

Very interesting...you learn something new every day! Lol.
Thanks for posting.