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Lower eastern Thailand (Southern Issan)/Southern Laos (Lowland Lao)
Majority 70% are Mon-Khmer ethnic(Vietnamese/Khmer) with about 30% are Dai/Tai ethnic.
I agreed that most of Chinese ethnic in Thailand are generally concentrated in Center Thailand, with reasonable number in Southern Thailand.
Ethnic group
75% Dai/Tai
14% Chinese (mostly concentrat in Center of Thailand and some number in Southern Thailand)
7% Khmer
3% Malay
1% Minorities(hill tribe)
Source: https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/th.html
Northern Thailand = 95% Dai/Tai ethnic with about 5% of population are hill tribe.
Upper Eastern Thailand = 85-90% of population are Dai/Tai ethnic with about 10-15% of Mon-Khmer ethnic.
Center Thailand = 80% are Chinese/partly Chinese ethnic, another 20% are something else (Dai/Tai,Mon-Khmer,Malay)
Lower Eastern Thailand = 70% are Mon-Khmer ethnic(Vietnamese/Khmer) with about 30% are Dai/Tai ethnic.
Southern Thailand = 50% are Malay/partly Malay ethnic with about 35% Chinese ethnic and 15% of Dai/Tai ethnic.
I wonder how many of the bargirls in Bangkok are of Chinese - including part Chinese ancestry. Quite a few of them look no different to say Chinese Singaporeans or those in Hong Kong. I think this idea that all or most of the bargirls are from Isan is exaggerated, I'm sure many urban girls from Bangkok and other parts also get involved.
It'd be a real stretch to say most people in BKK have Chinese ancestry, unless you go way back to the origins of Thais. Today the majority of people in BKK are pretty much from elsewhere, a lot from Issan, who migrated (and still are) to the city to find better paying work.
Origin of Dai/Tai (ethnic majority of Laos and Thailand)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezio_Auditore
Both Laos and Thailand are known to be multi-ethnic nation. By the way the ethnic that well known to be majority of both nation are call Dai/Tai which made up 55% of Laos population, 75% of Thailand population.
There are also minority of Tai/Dai people in neighbor countries such as China(Yunnan,Guangxi and Southern Sichun), Vietnam (North-western area), Myanmar (North-Eastern area).
History
The forebears of the modern Thai were Tai-speaking people living south of the Chang Jiang (Yangtze River) on the mountainous plateau of what is now the Chinese province of Yunnan. Early Chinese records (the first recorded Chinese reference to the Tai is dated sixth century B.C.) document the Tai cultivating wetland rice in valley and lowland areas. During the first millennium A.D., before the emergence of formal states governed by Taispeaking elites, these people lived in scattered villages drawn together into muang, or principalities. Each muang was governed by a chao, or lord, who ruled by virtue of personal qualities and a network of patron-client relationships. Often the constituent villages of a muang would band together to defend their lands from more powerful neighboring peoples, such as the Chinese and Vietnamese.
The state of Nanchao played a key role in Tai development. In the mid-seventh century A.D., the Chinese Tang Dynasty, threatened by powerful western neighbors like Tibet, sought to secure its southwestern borders by fostering the growth of a friendly state formed by the people they called man (southern barbarians) in the Yunnan region. This state was known as Nanchao. Originally an ally, Nanchao became a powerful foe of the Chinese in subsequent centuries and extended its domain into what is now Burma and northern Vietnam. In 1253 the armies of Kublai Khan conquered Nanchao and incorporated it into the Yuan (Mongol) Chinese empire.
Nanchao's significance for the Tai people was twofold. First, it blocked Chinese influence from the north for many centuries. Had Nanchao not existed, the Tai, like most of the originally non-Chinese peoples south of the Chang Jiang, might have been completely assimilated into the Chinese cultural sphere. Second, Nanchao stimulated Tai migration and expansion. Over several centuries, bands of Tai from Yunnan moved steadily into Southeast Asia, and by the thirteenth century they had reached as far west as Assam (in present-day India). Once settled, they became identified in Burma as the Shan and in the upper Mekong region as the Lao. In Tonkin and Annam, the northern and central portions of present-day Vietnam, the Tai formed distinct tribal groupings: Tai Dam (Black Tai), Tai Deng (Red Tai), Tai Khao (White Tai), and Nung. However, most of the Tai settled on the northern and western fringes of the Khmer Empire.
The Thai have traditionally regarded the founding of the kingdom of Sukhothai as marking their emergence as a distinct nation. Tradition sets 1238 as the date when Tai chieftains overthrew the Khmer at Sukhothai, capital of Angkor's outlying northwestern province, and established a Tai kingdom. A flood of migration resulting from Kublai Khan's conquest of Nanchao furthered the consolidation of independent Tai states. Tai warriors, fleeing the Mongol invaders, reinforced Sukhothai against the Khmer, ensuring its supremacy in the central plain. In the north, other Tai war parties conquered the old Mon state of Haripunjaya and in 1296 founded the kingdom of Lan Na with its capital at Chiang Mai.
Source: Thailand - The Tai People: Origins and Migrations
Another thing is, the "aboriginal people" whom used to lives in what is now Center Thailand before either the Dai/Tai people (currently the nation-wide ethnic majority of Laos and Thailand) migrats from S.China into Southeast Asia in 13th century or the Han-Chinese people(currently the ethnic majority of today Center Thailand) migrats into the area was the people called "Siamese".
By the way there are no actually data about what is actually "Siamese" or how they look like. There are no data or any form of information about them. Even more today there are no longer have an "ethnic called Siamese" in existence of any area of Thailand.
In fact the Han-Chinese is totally dominated the area of Center Thailand today. And the Dai/Tai ethnic in general are spread all over areas of Thailand/Laos, but the most pure Dai/Tai are most likely around Northern Laos/Northern Thailand and Upper Eastern Thailand (Northern Issan).
Origin of Dai/Tai (ethnic majority of Laos and Thailand)
Another thing is, the "aboriginal people" whom used to lives in what is now Center Thailand before either the Dai/Tai people (currently the nation-wide ethnic majority of Laos and Thailand) migrats from S.China into Southeast Asia in 13th century or the Han-Chinese people(currently the ethnic majority of today Center Thailand) migrats into the area was the people called "Siamese".
By the way there are no actually data about what is actually "Siamese" or how they look like. There are no data or any form of information about them. Even more today there are no longer have an "ethnic called Siamese" in existence of any area of Thailand.
In fact the Han-Chinese is totally dominated the area of Center Thailand today. And the Dai/Tai ethnic in general are spread all over areas of Thailand/Laos, but the most pure Dai/Tai are most likely around Northern Laos/Northern Thailand and Upper Eastern Thailand (Northern Issan).
That's interesting in terms of more ancient historical origins, but I have no idea how that relates to Thaksin and Yingluck Shinawatra or where the majority of people living in BKK today have come from.
Before borders were established, people who lived in the area known as Isan included people of Laos and Cambodia. The influence of Cambodia is especially noticable in the southern area of Isan from the Khmer architectural style of historical temples. From the end of WWII through the Vietnam War, there were a lot of people who fled from Laos to refugee camps in Isan. The overall history of Isan is, of course, more complex than that though. Laotian Civil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
With regard to BKK in recent times, a lot of people from the Isan region headed to BKK because it was seen as a city where more money could be earned than out on the home farms in Isan. Many of these people had little to no education and were only able to obtain menial jobs that provided low pay, but still more than they could've earned back home.
I have no idea exactly how many people from Isan live in BKK, but it's probably significant.
"Many Isan people seek higher-paying work outside the region, particularly in Bangkok. Some of these people have settled permanently in the city, while some migrate to and fro. Others have emigrated in search of better wages. Rather than relocate as a family, they usually leave their babies and school-age children in the care of relatives, friends or neighbours." Isan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I agree with you that it's unlikely there are any true ethnic Siamese (Thais) left in Thailand today. Today, people seem mostly mixed in one way or another. As for the PM of Thailand and her brother, they are not full ethnic Chinese, but mixed with Thai going back to their great-great-grandfather (Chinese) who married a Thai woman. It appears that the PM's heritage is mostly of Chinese ancestry, her father apparently married a woman of Hakka Chinese descent. Seng Sae Khu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
About 17 of Thailand's PM's are of partial Chinese descent. I knew there were quite a few, but I didn't realize there were quite that many. There's always something new to learn every day. Thai Chinese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Even though there is a mixture of ethnic origins among the people of Thailand, I think it's fair to consider that there are Thai people who are mostly of Thai descent, and can be rightfully be considered as ethnic Thais, or much closer to it, even if they aren't 100%. Even if there are no ethnic Siamese or Thais, try telling that to Thais who might disagree with your view.
Just saying......
The problem is that for the vast majority of Thais, with the exception of the royals and aristocrats, there are few that know much about their own family history because of a lack of records. My wife, for instance, has no birth record. She was born at home, and at the time there was no real requirement to publically record births. In fact, no one celebrates birthdays. We were only able to determine her birth from early school records and a teacher who remembered her and her family though. Today, things are different and birth records are required regardless of whether a child is born at home or not.
Even though there is a mixture of ethnic origins among the people of Thailand, I think it's fair to consider that there are Thai people who are mostly of Thai descent, and can be rightfully be considered as ethnic Thais, or much closer to it, even if they aren't 100%. Even if there are no ethnic Siamese or Thais, try telling that to Thais who might disagree with your view.
Well I need to explain one thing about this part a little bit more. Becasue the Siamese and the Thai(Dai/Tai) are TOTALLY different people from different time and definitely not related to one another. And the representative ethnic of Thailand(and Laos) are the Dai/Tai ethnic.
The "Thai"(could also be call as Dai or Tai) are the people those whom migrated from S.China during 13th centurty into what is now called Thailand and Laos becasue of invasion of Mongolian empire.
The "Siamanese" were the aboriginal people those were living in what is now Center Area of Thailand at the first place, long before the Thai(Dai/Tai) that came from S. China makes it into Southeast Asia. By the way there are no actually info about whom Siamese were related to, some people may say that they were related to Mon-Khmer people like Vietnamese and Khmer. Becasue Vietnamese,Khmer, other Mon-Khmer ethnics were know of have been living in Southeast Asia for more than 4500 years.
While Dai/Tai/Tai-Kadai ethnics like Lao and Thai are known to be the most recent people whom came from S.China and made it into Southeast Asia in around 13th century.
Even more in today, there are around 23 millions of Dai/Tai/Tai-Kadai people remain in S.China around Yunnan,Guangxi and Southern Sichuan, which considered to be largest ethnic minority in China.
Source: Tai
Dai/Tai ethnic (ethnic majority of Laos and Thailand) those still remain in S.China
Dai/Tai ethnic in China look the same to people in Northern Laos(highland Lao), Northern Thailand and Upper-Eastern Thailand(Northern Issan), these areas of Laos and Thailand I mentioned are most likely homogeneous areas of Dai/Tai ethnic (true ethnic of Laos and Thailand). To me people of these homogeneous areas of Dai/Tai ethnic have "unique" physical features of Tai/Dai/Tai-Kadai ethnic which isn't the same as either Sinid(Han-Chinese) or other Southeast Asian.
On another hand....
When we look at something like Center Thailand, majority of people will have more of Sinid(Han-Chinese) features.
When look at people of Southern Laos (Lowland Lao)/Lower-Eatern Thailand (Southern Issan), majority of people will look more like Mon-Khmer ethnic(Khmer,Vietnamese,Wa,Suy,Deang,Blang). And when look at Southern Thailand, majority of people will look more like Malay race but there are still signeficant number of those whom look Sinid(Han-Chinese) in Southern Thailand too, because there are signeficant number of oversea Chinese landed in Southern Thailand(btw, majority are landed in Center Thailand).
Another Tai-Kadai ethnic considered to be brother of Dai/Tai ethnic, this ethnic called Zhuang.
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