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Old 05-05-2017, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Jersey
2,296 posts, read 3,395,520 times
Reputation: 2031

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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Yes.

It is stupid to say the UK broke up India because the Muslims wanted it. No, they did so using some Mulim's wishes when it suited their own purpose. Scotland wants to leave too, and I don't see London being too happy about that.

Countries can work with multiple cultures and ethnicities. There are many successful examples. All the nationalist "nation states" are getting smaller and small, sometimes a couple of million people, it is just getting stupid because they simply don't have the economy of scales.

The United Kingdom has always been a selflish calculating, manipulating bully with no principles in terms of international relations. It loves to create a messy, divided region when it leaves, India, Middle East, you name it. And it is by design and not an unfortunate outcome. If some day the Middle East achieves eternal peace and becomes a united Arab nation, London would be immensely disappointed. It will be considered the biggest diplomatic failure in its history.
No one is holding the UK unaccountable for partition. The fact remains is that partition could have been avoided if the UK granted India independence sooner. The fact also remains that a unified independent India was practically unfeasible by the 1930s due to a sizable percentage if not majority of Muslim leaders wanting a separate Islamic state. Not even Gandhi could convince them otherwise. Throw in a few sectarian riots on top of the Muslim League and you have a situation where partition was inevitable. Was this optimal? Heck no. Is a bitter divorce better than an unhappy marriage? I would say yes.
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Old 05-05-2017, 05:22 PM
 
Location: World
3,648 posts, read 3,517,237 times
Reputation: 2477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Lee View Post
"Many westerners don't seem to know HK was looked down up by Shanghai during much of its history."

"Canton - Guangzhou was a great Trading center and Port for Tea, Porcelain and Opium trade. It was also better then Hong Kong in 1700s and early 1800s."

Most westerners don't even know that both Shanghai and Hong Kong were developed by the British. Before the Opium War, Shanghai and Hong Kong were both small fishing villages. It was only after the Treaty of Nanjing in 1842 that the Qing Empire ceded the tiny island of Hong Kong to Britain and opened five ports for trade. One of them is Shanghai.

Before 1842, both places were unknown and undeveloped. In fact, then British Prime Minister Palmerston even called Hong Kong "A land of barren rocks".

Once Hong Kong emerged, the role of Guangzhou and Macau became diminished. It is all related to geography. Hong Kong is one of the few natural deep water ports in the world. Heavy tonnage cargo ships cannot navigate up the shallow waters up to Guangzhou and Macau is located on the wrong side of the Pearl River Delta. There are too many sediments in the harbor.

British is very skilled in developing port cities. Shanghai, Hong Kong, Singapore, Malacca, Port Said, Aden,.....were all developed by the British to become famous or once famous port cities.
In which year this awareness or requirement about Heavy tonnage cargo ships emerged? If we are talking about 1800s, Canton was doing fine up the Pearl River. This reminds me of Calcutta Port up the Hooghly river from Bay of Bengal. There settlement at Fort William was one of the most important in Asia. They developed Calcutta, Madras, Bombay and Karachi ports in India. After British left, other ports were developed as Heavy tonnage ships emerged.
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Old 05-05-2017, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,348 posts, read 543,801 times
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I don't have the exact year and date on when Guangzhou's role was replaced. It should have happened gradually over many years.

The 13 British Hongs (trading houses) were all based in Guangzhou before and after Opium war. Hong Kong first served as a place for the British merchants to have their families stay there and as a place for storage. There were many godowns (British word for warehouse) built on both coasts of the Victoria Harbor.

But as China entered the period of turbulence in the second half of 19th century until late 20th century which saw multi-civil wars, revolution, famine, political movements,.......etc., Guangzhou's role was gradually replaced by Hong Kong due to the latter's stability.

But lately Guangzhou saw its comeback. Due to more modern dredging technology, Guangzhou's Nansha port can handle mass volume of cargo. In fact, there are more than one cargo port mushrooming around Hong Kong.

Currently in term of cargo volume, Hong Kong is the busiest in air traffic. It took over Memphis to become the world's busiest air cargo hub. But Shanghai also catches fast. It now ranks 3rd.
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Old 05-05-2017, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,348 posts, read 543,801 times
Reputation: 1102
"The United Kingdom has always been a selflish calculating, manipulating bully with no principles in terms of international relations. It loves to create a messy, divided region when it leaves, India, Middle East, you name it. And it is by design and not an unfortunate outcome."
_____________________________________________

Not always.

For example, UK asked the self-governing Singapore to merger with the Malayan Federation in 1963 to form the country of Malaysia. But merely after two years, Kuala Lumpur decided to kick Singapore out from Malaysia. In retrospect, the separation looked like tragic at that time (Singapore begged not to leave) but now both sides are happy.
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Old 05-08-2017, 10:36 AM
 
3,339 posts, read 2,073,907 times
Reputation: 2367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Lee View Post
"The United Kingdom has always been a selflish calculating, manipulating bully with no principles in terms of international relations. It loves to create a messy, divided region when it leaves, India, Middle East, you name it. And it is by design and not an unfortunate outcome."
_____________________________________________

Not always.

For example, UK asked the self-governing Singapore to merger with the Malayan Federation in 1963 to form the country of Malaysia. But merely after two years, Kuala Lumpur decided to kick Singapore out from Malaysia. In retrospect, the separation looked like tragic at that time (Singapore begged not to leave) but now both sides are happy.
and it annexed North Borneo (they were only lease holders) when the Philippines got self rule then turned it over to Malaysia when the latter was granted independence


yeah..i agree. they like to create mess
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Old 05-14-2017, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Earth
4,509 posts, read 3,092,720 times
Reputation: 3355
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerJAX View Post
No one is holding the UK unaccountable for partition. The fact remains is that partition could have been avoided if the UK granted India independence sooner. The fact also remains that a unified independent India was practically unfeasible by the 1930s due to a sizable percentage if not majority of Muslim leaders wanting a separate Islamic state. Not even Gandhi could convince them otherwise. Throw in a few sectarian riots on top of the Muslim League and you have a situation where partition was inevitable. Was this optimal? Heck no. Is a bitter divorce better than an unhappy marriage? I would say yes.
Wish there was a way to reconvert to Saracens in asia back to hinduism, buddhism, sikhism, jainism, zohorastrianism, or godlessness. Even christianity would make it easier to tame them. South asia should reunify under a secular democratic government with a uniform civil code and english as one of the official langauges.

Honestly, in this day and age, why would anyone want to live like a middle eastern Bedouin. They have brought nothing violence, chaos, and backwardness.

It boggles my mind why iranians, aghans, paks, central assassins, and bangladeshis bow their heads to arabs 5 times a day. That's submission and slavery like pavlov's dog. operand conditioning.

Iranians are also nationalistic. They hate arabs yet they still live like they are under the 2nd caliphate.

Afghans are like islamic Appalachians. Paks are just wierd. They idolize the people that raped and sold their ancestors into slavery like ghazni, ghor, and bin qasim.

And lets not forget what happened to poor aisha. She was like 6 years old when the Bedouin came for her. Perfect man bottelli's butt!

One thing that communists did right was neuter the Bedouin ideology in central asia. Probably should have let them stay and finish the job in afghanistan if revenge for vietnam wasn't needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by payutenyodagimas View Post
and it annexed North Borneo (they were only lease holders) when the Philippines got self rule then turned it over to Malaysia when the latter was granted independence

yeah..i agree. they like to create mess
which is why southeast asia should unify under a secular democratic english speaking government under the flag of garuda.

Remember their majapahit roots!
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