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Old 12-20-2010, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,138 posts, read 22,826,985 times
Reputation: 14116

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So I'm in the midst of the Holiday Season, a lone unbeliever surrounded by an extended family and spouse that are devout churchy-type people who are very prone to spouting long, tearful, emotional ramblings of gratitude for Jesus this time of year.

I usually just button my lip and try to avoid rolling my eyes...but this year I've been reading a lot of Joseph Campbell and thinking deeply about the whole thing, especially considering the ramping-up of my ongoing battle over religion with my wife. So here's what I see:

Jesus is the ultimate "perfect" person in our particular culture... someone who is unconditionally loving, sees all people as equals, is strong, omnipotenly powerful and intelligent beyond anything a human could ever be, yet humble, merciful, understanding and clearly knows when to use and especially when to not use his power. He is also willing to suffer and stick it out to the bitter end, because it is the right thing to do for everyone.

Who wouldn't want someone like that to lead us?

Sadly, it would take millions more years of evolution before this particular species of ape could produce such a fine specimen. But the idea of Jesus, though I doubt he ever actually lived (especially not as the story goes, anyway), itself serves as a kind of cultural compass pointing us in the direction we want to eventually go as a society.

So instead of getting mad at the fallacious idea of Jesus the real man, I am gonna celebrate Jesus the Archetype this holiday season, and not get mad about it. This year there is a (spagetti-free ) nativity scene on my mantle, and for me it means hope for a future humanity that has grown up and lives up to the ideal our ancestors passed along to us.

Last edited by Chango; 12-20-2010 at 08:55 AM..
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Old 12-20-2010, 06:10 PM
 
30,902 posts, read 33,021,357 times
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Oh, absolutely. This person (archetype) is usually also a king or great leader, and sacrifices himself/dies so life can be renewed. In pagan times, the Oak King was seen to have been sacrificed in order to bring the new Sun King to life (i.e. the turning point from the longest night and shortest day of the year, to gradually lengthening days and shorter nights). Winter is death, summer is life.

Jesus for sure fits all of this and it is definitely a nice story, I feel, at least when taken in this context. Everybody loves a hero! So celebrate away. Your idea sounds just beautiful!
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Old 12-21-2010, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,612 posts, read 4,898,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
But the idea of Jesus, though I doubt he ever actually lived (especially not as the story goes, anyway), itself serves as a kind of cultural compass pointing us in the direction we want to eventually go as a society.
That is a very good way to put it. Most of us would not want to be exactly like Jesus, but we would like to be better people than we are now. Having some kind of role model is good for us.

I guess that is why many Christians wear the WWJD bracelets. I bet almost all of them are better people when they remember the bracelet they are wearing.

One of my bible-banger friends, who is an extremely nice person, gave me a golf ball marker with a cross and an inscription on it. I always carry it in my golf bag. Like him, I am trying to be a better person, even if I am not using any kind of religion to help me. Instead, I read Thoreau.
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Old 12-21-2010, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,612 posts, read 4,898,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
This year there is a (spagetti-free ) nativity scene on my mantle, and for me it means hope for a future humanity that has grown up and lives up to the ideal our ancestors passed along to us.
Maybe you would like this song


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGMky4tVN7c

This is why I like Christmas
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,612 posts, read 4,898,289 times
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OK, here's one more. Christians - you gotta love them.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXh7JR9oKVE
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Old 12-21-2010, 10:25 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,932,109 times
Reputation: 17478
LOL. They were decent singers.

Guerrilla Handbell Strikeforce | Improv Everywhere

I love Improveverywhere

Improv Everywhere

Antwerp Train Station


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkBepgH00GM
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Old 12-21-2010, 10:26 PM
 
Location: Owasso, OK
1,224 posts, read 4,001,704 times
Reputation: 1147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
So I'm in the midst of the Holiday Season, a lone unbeliever surrounded by an extended family and spouse that are devout churchy-type people who are very prone to spouting long, tearful, emotional ramblings of gratitude for Jesus this time of year.

I usually just button my lip and try to avoid rolling my eyes...but this year I've been reading a lot of Joseph Campbell and thinking deeply about the whole thing, especially considering the ramping-up of my ongoing battle over religion with my wife. So here's what I see:

Jesus is the ultimate "perfect" person in our particular culture... someone who is unconditionally loving, sees all people as equals, is strong, omnipotenly powerful and intelligent beyond anything a human could ever be, yet humble, merciful, understanding and clearly knows when to use and especially when to not use his power. He is also willing to suffer and stick it out to the bitter end, because it is the right thing to do for everyone.

Who wouldn't want someone like that to lead us?

Sadly, it would take millions more years of evolution before this particular species of ape could produce such a fine specimen. But the idea of Jesus, though I doubt he ever actually lived (especially not as the story goes, anyway), itself serves as a kind of cultural compass pointing us in the direction we want to eventually go as a society.

So instead of getting mad at the fallacious idea of Jesus the real man, I am gonna celebrate Jesus the Archetype this holiday season, and not get mad about it. This year there is a (spagetti-free ) nativity scene on my mantle, and for me it means hope for a future humanity that has grown up and lives up to the ideal our ancestors passed along to us.
I LOVE this! I like Jesus, I just don't like most of his followers! I appreciate his teachings of love, acceptance, and tolerance. Jesus was a socialist hippie! I do not believe he was a deity, however. I appreciate your message of tolerance during this particular time of "War on Christmas". You have a very mature way of looking at things.
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Old 12-22-2010, 04:34 AM
 
Location: Florida
23,175 posts, read 26,214,723 times
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The message of peace on earth, goodwill to men is a difficult wish to object to ( unless you're in arms manufacturering or gung-ho career military or certain type of government leader/follower)
Oh,gee, that's a lot of the worlds population, isn't it?
Ah well, the rest of us can ask Santa for it.
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:32 AM
 
Location: NC, USA
7,084 posts, read 14,869,230 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
That is a very good way to put it. Most of us would not want to be exactly like Jesus, but we would like to be better people than we are now. Having some kind of role model is good for us.

I guess that is why many Christians wear the WWJD bracelets. I bet almost all of them are better people when they remember the bracelet they are wearing.

One of my bible-banger friends, who is an extremely nice person, gave me a golf ball marker with a cross and an inscription on it. I always carry it in my golf bag. Like him, I am trying to be a better person, even if I am not using any kind of religion to help me. Instead, I read Thoreau.
Dang!!!!! Thoreau makes more sense. At least he dealt with real things.
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:55 AM
 
16,294 posts, read 28,543,062 times
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Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
The message of peace on earth, goodwill to men is a difficult wish to object to
Agreed, also much like the golden rule, which is more common sense than theology. Sadly for many it is only lip service.

That said, one must also realize that here in the buy-bull belt, there is always an asterisk (*) and footnote when the fundi, ET'ers and primitive religion believers say that, as for them it only applies to those that have drunk the kool-aid and been assimilated into the mindless acceptance of their narrow and sometimes twisted views.
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