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Old 07-08-2019, 12:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
To a degree, yes. I just think you overdo all that. Because if it were as all-encompassing as you seem to think, then we'd all turn out much the same. I don't think we are (and I am only speaking here of Americans). And I think you can make just as strong a case that we have been eternally affected by the Greek culture, but the Roman culture, and as the decades pass by, increasingly affected by Latino and African cultures.

Back when I was principal, I found a package of...well, let's say uplifting readings to close the morning announcements with (it was a package for purchase). While some might reference a particular culture, the point of the readings were that many of the principles we believe in are not unique to our culture. And as I traveled through (and in one case lived in) a number of Southeast Asian countries that were mostly Buddhist, but also Muslim to one degree or another, with heavy doses of Chinese), I found many everyday ways of life to be extremely similar to the Western way of life...and other aspects that were not.

But I will say again -- I don't give a flying fig what they did 2,000 years ago in Judea. It is not part of my life. Hip hop and rap culture probably affects my life more today than those goat herders....and I hate hip hop and rap.
Humans in every corner of the planet have similar behavior. Dogs are also similar regardless whether the dog is in Asia or North America. The biology is powerful!

However, there is more to whom we are than just biology.

Carl Jung understood archetypes as universal, archaic patterns and images that derive from the collective unconscious and are the psychic counterpart of instinct. They are inherited potentials which are actualized when they enter consciousness as images or manifest in behavior on interaction with the outside world. They are autonomous and hidden forms which are transformed once they enter consciousness and are given particular expression by individuals and their cultures. In Jungian psychology, archetypes are highly developed elements of the collective unconscious. The existence of archetypes can only be deduced indirectly by using story, art, myths, religions, or dreams.

Jung rejected the tabula rasa theory of human psychological development, believing instead that evolutionary pressures have individual predestinations manifested in archetypes.


You have behavioral patterns that are not necessarily in your DNA. As Richard Dawkins says: You have also inherited a lot of memes that define who you are and you will pass these memes to the next generation.

Within this context it is important to study the past.
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Old 07-08-2019, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
...

Within this context it is important to study the past.
You know the old saying -- "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

I think there's something else equally true -- "Those who dwell on history are doomed to repeat it."
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Old 07-08-2019, 01:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
You know the old saying -- "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

I think there's something else equally true -- "Those who dwell on history are doomed to repeat it."
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Old 07-08-2019, 01:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
You know the old saying -- "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

I think there's something else equally true -- "Those who dwell on history are doomed to repeat it."
We are seeing this now. The Gulag Archipelago was published in 1973. Afterwards in the late 80s the Berlin wall came down and the USSR failed. Communism was discredited.

Many young people born after 1989 are now very much into that sort of ideology because they never studied the past.
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Old 07-08-2019, 06:14 PM
 
Location: S. Wales.
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Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
If you know who they are you understand yourself. That is why people study other primates. There is a lot in there that explains our behavior.

It is interesting how the people that are high on "openness" tend to use the same words and terms. They also uniformly reject established customs as archaic and useless. That would be YOU. However, thank God (said in a secular manner) you are a bit conscientious.
That's also valid. I think that often we can understand the people of the past. That makes it easier for us to see the mistakes they made and try to do better. This is why being aware of the past helps us to know what not to do. thought it isn't so easy to do it.

Post-modernism, eh? I can see the point of what it observes in human behaviour and thought, but I would see dangers in thinking that way. Critical thinking might give a false impression of clear -cut definitions, but that seems to me to beat blundering about in a fog of not being sure of anything.
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Old 07-08-2019, 06:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
That's also valid. I think that often we can understand the people of the past. That makes it easier for us to see the mistakes they made and try to do better. This is why being aware of the past helps us to know what not to do. thought it isn't so easy to do it.

Post-modernism, eh? I can see the point of what it observes in human behaviour and thought, but I would see dangers in thinking that way. Critical thinking might give a false impression of clear -cut definitions, but that seems to me to beat blundering about in a fog of not being sure of anything.
Post modernism interprets issues anyway they want. Some post modernists think science is BS because it is too Western.
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Old 07-08-2019, 11:55 PM
 
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Let me put it this way: engineers and scientists are more likely to be atheists, but it has nothing to do with IQ or education.

Several psychological studies showed interesting division on human types. To oversimplify, there are two "types" of people - let's call them "vertical" and "horizontal". "Vertical" are the ones that see the society as a pyramid. For them it is natural to have an authority above them ("masters") and they think they are an authority to those below them ("slaves"), i.e. they perfectly fit the social ladder. The main problem is - they think this is natural way things are, and any other way is just wrong - because it against their instincts. They just don't understand how someone can have no desire for power over others. And for them it's just absolutely logical to have an ultimate "master" (i.e. "god"). It has nothing to do with any proofs. It's just their need, something like a need for food/shelter/safety. But there is also "horizontal" type of people. They don't accept any authority. Their motto is "nobody is above me, and nobody is below me". Simple as that. They don't want to be ruled by anyone, and (that's important!) they don't want to rule anyone. Unfortunately, they don't fit well into a society pyramid. They don't want to climb this stupid ladder. And, since they refuse any authority, it's natural that they don't need or want an "ultimate" one. In fact, if, let's pretend for a moment, "god" (or "gods") would really exist, they would fight against them - just because they don't fit into "master/slave" relationship. Of course, they have to somehow adapt into the society, but none of them truly accept authority. I mean, life can force "horizontal" person to work for someone (after all, we all need to eat ), but that person will never internally accept boss' "right" to command him/her. He/she can pretend, but never really accept.

Somehow this property of not accepting any authority translates to the interest of "how things work", and that leads most of "horizontal" people to become real engineers/scientists. Not the other way around.
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Old 07-09-2019, 01:03 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
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Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Post modernism interprets issues anyway they want. Some post modernists think science is BS because it is too Western.
I think science has a lot going for it
(a) because it can validate its' results rather than just repeat them as faith-claims
(b) it is universal. There are many religions; there is only one science.
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Old 07-09-2019, 04:09 AM
 
12,030 posts, read 9,337,949 times
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Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
I think science has a lot going for it
(a) because it can validate its' results rather than just repeat them as faith-claims
(b) it is universal. There are many religions; there is only one science.
A post modernist thinks differently.
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Old 07-09-2019, 06:42 AM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,570,234 times
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Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
A post modernist thinks differently.
I think "post modernist" might just be a person that can break down what people are saying to the root notion that the person is using to form the set of beliefs that person runs their life by.

"science has a lot going for us"

vs

"scientist has a lot going for us"
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