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Men don't get it. There is a great deal of sexism within the atheist movement and many women got fed up with it and with the fact that men refuse to acknowledge it.
Women aren't always flattered to be hit on just because you happen to be a skeptic or atheist and she is one also.
That's funny ... I haven't experienced any sexism within the "atheist movement." In fact, people have gone out of their way to welcome me to the fold, so to speak - and I've even been offered membership in a few loose atheist organizations.
I dunno ... where is all of this sexism coming from?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TransplantedPeach
As atheists, I think we need to be inclusive.
Well, there is no word in the English language that represents both genders at the same time except for plurals. I just capitalize the word Man or Mankind whenever I use that term to describe all of humanity.
As for the article, it's mostly BS as far as I'm concerned. There is no scientific study here, no polling data, no actual evidence.
All we have here are a few examples of anecdotal experiences - and we all know how worthwhile those are for proving something, right?
Then you have several women who just whined. Oh no, Penn and Teller are misogynists because they used the "C" word. Who cares? Do you see men going off the rails when a woman uses the "D" word? It's just genitalia.
Then there's the woman who was asked politely by a man to go back to his room for coffee ... and she whines because he was supposedly sexualizing her. Really? Yet if she had been interested in him or found him cute enough, she would be whistling an entirely different tune. "Oh, we went back to his room and had a marvelous time *wink wink*"
Hitchens insulted a woman. Oh dear me! That makes him a misogynist!
Well, I'm here to tell ya that some feminists are their own worst enemies. I personally know quite a number of guys who simply stopped dating because a rejection these days can mean sexual harassment charges ... and a consensual romp in the hay today can mean rape charges tomorrow. In fact, one of my closest friends in college was killed indirectly due to some regretful girl crying rape after the fact.
Because so many women failed to use our protections responsibly, they've been turned into a joke. Those women have given men REASON to be misogynistic. Like another friend who was fired from his job because some idiot girl went to the supervisor and accused my friend of looking at her too often (never mind that they both worked at a cubicle and if my friend looked up from his work, he couldn't HELP but look in her direction). And the company just took her word for it - no investigation, talking to other employees nearby where they work ... nothing.
Sorry, my female cohorts, but I'm NOT on your side in this. In fact, it makes me ashamed to be female when I see this kind of whiny tripe. I'm all for equality ... but it has to be actual equality. That means if we want to be treated equally, we can't demand to be truck drivers and lumberjacks one minute and then be sniveling little pantywaists the next. We can't have our cake and eat it, too.
I dunno ... where is all of this sexism coming from?
Mostly in the over-sensitive tissue located in between some people's ears, as you've suggested. People who self identify as atheists do seem to be more predominantly male, for reasons we've beaten to death in other threads, which tends to make atheism (like a host of other isms) have a bit of a "good old boys" feel to it. A woman who expects too much of atheism, such as that this one change in belief instantly leads to rainbows and unicorns and utopia, will be dismayed to find that atheism does not cure all the social ills of mankind with the stroke of a metaphorical pen -- or render atheist men somehow not a product of their times and (largely theist) upbringing. Also, I suspect they may sense they are a somewhat bigger fish in a somewhat smaller pond (the small subset of atheists who actually organize or meet for just atheistic motivations) and thus have a greater sense of power.
As you have demonstrated, though, simply approaching social discourse among fellow unbelievers with an attitude of equality and confidence and common courtesy more than compensates. You've not only been welcomed here, but embraced ... your gender appears to be no handicap at all.
Personally I'm glad that atheists are not by nature joiners -- that political intrigue and power struggles aren't even an issue for most of us. Most of this hooraw is coming from the high echelons of a handful of small activist organizations, and living as I do in a town full of activists, I chalk it up to the ethos of activism of any stripe.
Few things are more mysogynistic than religion and it hasn't brought that down. Men are going to have higher profiles because more of them seek a public life. But has anyone heard of Madalyn Murray O'Hair. And look how she was villified for her work. There are other women who speak out as atheists. They are just not as well known. This will likely change some as time goes on.
That's funny ... I haven't experienced any sexism within the "atheist movement." In fact, people have gone out of their way to welcome me to the fold, so to speak - and I've even been offered membership in a few loose atheist organizations.
I dunno ... where is all of this sexism coming from?
While skimming the subforum to see if anyone had posted the link above yet (it was just published last night, September 11, 2014), I came across another thread discussing the ratio of males to females in atheism. Some folks in that thread asked why men so vastly outnumber women. I think the above piece provides some illumination, as well as highlights an issue I think we need to address as a community. It's long, but well worth the read.
Keep searching. Someday you may come up with something of value on this subject, but I doubt it.
No, it's not going to derail the atheist movement. Sexism and sexual misconduct are going to be around for a long time, as will click-bait introductions. I agree with others that these problems aren't unique to atheists.
What bothered me most about this article was the author's use of the word "man" to mean men and women. If you're decrying sexism within a movement, any movement, why not use gender inclusive language?
From the article: "The roots of today’s crisis can be found in the post-war history of the movement. The groups that make up the broader freethought community — atheists, who don’t believe in a god; agnostics, who are unsure; secular humanists, who seek to replace god-centered religion with a man-made ethical system; church-state separationists, who just want religion kept out of public life; and scientific skeptics, who work to overthrow superstition and pseudoscience — have two things in common. First, they oppose the hegemony of religious, including New Age, thinking in American culture. And second, they all have roots in very male subcultures." --emphasis added
To me, this use of the word "man" is one example of how prevalent sexism is. I know many people who use man/men, intending for it to include women, who aren't trying to be sexist. Some aren't even aware of it, even in this forum. I bring this up because words matter. Just look at the debates here about word meanings....
As atheists, I think we need to be inclusive. I think the CD Atheism and Agnosticism forum is generally an inclusive place for people to exchange and explore ideas. I'm new around here and appreciate the forum.
Yep. "Man-made" irritates me. "Artificial" is such an easy edit.
I wouldn't call any of this whiny. I do, however, find behavior like Shermer's and speech like Gillette's disapppointing. I realize there are sexist slobs everywhere. Hey, Kirsten Gillibrand just came out not long ago about dealing with it in the Senate. But there being sexist slobs everywhere doesn't make it right. There are also racist slobs everywhere, too, but when they behave in odious ways, they are called to the carpet for it. So it should be with these guys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053
Men don't get it. There is a great deal of sexism within the atheist movement and many women got fed up with it and with the fact that men refuse to acknowledge it.
Women aren't always flattered to be hit on just because you happen to be a skeptic or atheist and she is one also.
Yep, like Arjay here refuses to acknowledge it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51
Keep searching. Someday you may come up with something of value on this subject, but I doubt it.
Do you have anything worthwhile to add to this discussion? Or are you just going to toss out the attitude of "there, there li'l woman?"
But has anyone heard of Madalyn Murray O'Hair. And look how she was villified for her work.
I heard of her and remember her as she was ascendant during my childhood. I'm sure she took her share of flack that's normally directed at atheists, women, and of course woman atheists. But a lot of it was self inflicted, particularly toward the end. She had become paranoid, unstable, and vulnerable to scam artists, and it was her undoing.
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