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Hello all. Let me start by saying I am a bit of a forum crasher here since I consider myself Catholic and go to a Catholic church. But I think the regular forum goers here might be the best source for unbiased history books on religion. My experience is that Atheists are a pretty educated bunch and you always have to defend yourselves from religious people, so maybe you'd have some good information.
I've been having a crisis of faith as they say since all these priest sex abuse and cover up scandals started coming up, again. I've started to question things about my church like, where do all these rules and traditions come from? Is this just a bunch of man-made rules that really sever no higher purpose? Where does the idea of confession come from, why do we blindly recite the Nicean Creed each week like a bunch of robots, who said you have to go to church every Sunday and why? Things like that.
I thought it might be nice to read a history book on Christianity to learn more, but I am finding most books are published by religious publishers and have an agenda of their own. I just want something completely unbiased. Something that's going to give me the plain history, warts and as well as the good stuff, behind why we do what we do and how Christianity developed into what it is today. I don't want to read dogma or a catechism disguised as history (I have resources like that I am also reviewing).
If any one has any suggestions, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!
Last edited by TMBGBlueCanary; 10-04-2018 at 01:37 PM..
Reason: fixed a typo "man-made"
I've been having a crisis of faith as they say since all these priest sex abuse and cover up scandals started coming up, again. I've started to question things about my church like, where do all these rules and traditions come from? Is this just a bunch of man -man rules that really sever no higher purpose? Where does the idea of confession come from, why do we blindly recite the Nicean Creed each week like a bunch of robots, who said you have to go to church every Sunday and why? Things like that.
My impression is that you are on the way to getting there on your own, which is a far better way to become an atheist than being talked into it by someone.
I am not sure it is possible to recommend a book and have everybody accept it as unbiased. At least knowing the potential bias of a book is useful though.
Try Bart Ehrman. He is an atheist, but he is also an academic who started off as a conservative Christian, getting his undergrad at a bible institute. He writes books about historical Christianity and investigates the evolution of belief and church history.
His more popular books are also pretty accessible to the typical reader.
books are good, but I also find that some of the video talks are very useful for getting a number of overviews from both sides on say the origins of the Bible.
I recall a good video on the various early 'bibles' with different selections of books (though they seemed to be to disagree more about order than about content) and Tracie Harriss (a former Christian, as a great many of us goddless bastards were) gave a great talk on how she found out about Bible compilation which of course she had never been told about.
John Dominic Crossan. A former Catholic priest. I think he is a liberal theist now. I cannot stress him enough. You can also find some of his lectures on youtube.
Bishop John Shelby Spong. Don't be intimidated by the formal title. He is a liberal Christian very similar to Crossan.
Thanks again. I've been looking at Ehrman's books and think I found a good one for me to start with. I will also be sure to check out the link soon and look up the men Ozzy suggested. I appreciate the help.
And Fishbrains is right, any book can be seen as biased. I didn't word that well. I was just having problems finding history books that weren't written by the Catholic church. From what little I've cobbled together watching documentaries on Christianity, I get the impression that a lot of history was rewritten to be favorable to the Church. That's what I wanted to avoid. I have those sources already, I want another (more scholarly) point of view.
Thanks again. I've been looking at Ehrman's books and think I found a good one for me to start with. I will also be sure to check out the link soon and look up the men Ozzy suggested. I appreciate the help.
Please remember many historians (including secular ones) use bad methods that were invented by Christian apologists. Ehrman is one of these, although his work is often good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMBGBlueCanary
And Fishbrains is right, any book can be seen as biased. I didn't word that well. I was just having problems finding history books that weren't written by the Catholic church. From what little I've cobbled together watching documentaries on Christianity, I get the impression that a lot of history was rewritten to be favorable to the Church. That's what I wanted to avoid. I have those sources already, I want another (more scholarly) point of view.
Not only rewritten to be favorable to the Church, much was invented by the then evolving Catholic church. The writings of other sects of Christianity were mostly ignored or even destroyed.
Thanks again. I've been looking at Ehrman's books and think I found a good one for me to start with. I will also be sure to check out the link soon and look up the men Ozzy suggested. I appreciate the help.
And Fishbrains is right, any book can be seen as biased. I didn't word that well. I was just having problems finding history books that weren't written by the Catholic church. From what little I've cobbled together watching documentaries on Christianity, I get the impression that a lot of history was rewritten to be favorable to the Church. That's what I wanted to avoid. I have those sources already, I want another (more scholarly) point of view.
Yes. I don't much mind about it after the later Antique after the Roman church had effectively eliminated the rival religions. It is the period of the (mythical?) first Bishops of Rome and the gradual spread of the religion (Isis worship and Mithraism as well as the Imperial cult were equally popular, but Christianity was illegal) that interests me. And then Constantine's decision to make Christianity legal and in fact combine it with the State cult. It was rather a hybrid rather as Akbar in India made Islam a personal cult.
Then after his death how the Roman church gradually got power over the emperor, saw to the elimination of rival religions and eventually sat in the Emperor's seat themselves. The rest (Holy Roman Empire - crusades against heretics, rival popes) is history. And of course I look particularly at the propaganda wrangle about the tomb and bones of St Peter, the First pope.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 10-05-2018 at 08:54 AM..
Yeah, like I said in the other thread I've participated in, by the tenants of my own religion I am a heretic and an unrepentant sinner. But I am being told this by an institution whose leaders abused children and then covered it all up, systemically. That's why I've started digging more into things and questioning my faith. I've been seeking answers on Catholic forums, but I just get platitudes.
I don't know that I will ever become an Atheist. I am not a spring chicken and I think some of my religion is too ingrained into my personality (including the guilt over just about everything, haha). And I am sitting here now, eating lunch before going to work and I am eating fish because it's Friday while questioning my faith (like why am I eating fish? Why does the Church say that exactly? Why would God even care what I am eating). To be fair, the Catholic church doesn't require you abstain from meat on Friday anymore, but if you don't abstain, you are supposed to do something else that is a personal sacrifice. Most Catholics don't even know that and don't do it. It's amazing to me how much other Catholics don't know about our Church (yet they can quote the Catechism and think that's the way it's always been).
I joked in another thread that I consider myself a Ronin Catholic now. Like a Ronin samurai with no lord (meaning the Church no longer is my authority). So I am trying to seek on my own and while I do, I still follow the basic rules of my faith. The only thing I've stopped doing is giving money to the Church. That money now goes to a charity that helps the elderly homeless. Granted, that charity is run by sisters (nuns), but I know my money is going to help people and make them comfortable in their dying years. Not going to who knows where to pay off families so they don't report predator priests. I will also still give to Catholic Charities as they are much like the Red Cross, but seem to have a better charity rating.
I can see myself as Agnostic, like my dad was, maybe. I am a lot like him from people tell me. We will just see what I discover as I seek more information, more knowledge.
https://www.amazon.com/John-W.-Loftus/e/B001JPCMWE (John is a friend and super cool. Solid work and from the perspective of an apostate and former preacher, so he knows and speaks the language. I found writings by former theists -- Christians, specifically evangelical, to "click" better because they were in it and understood the nuances of faith and theology and the culture.)
https://www.amazon.com/Richard-Carri...8759250&sr=8-1 (while not specifically NT related, as in the case of Erhman, Carrier is a historian and well-versed on first century and Church history. I used to post with him on infidels and he's always provided solid work)
I have hundreds of sources collected over the last 11 years.
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