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Nonsense. I was not remotely responding to Zara's motivations and my post simply reflects the evolutionary realities. The modern pretense that there are no differences between males and females may satisfy feel-good PC notions, but it flies in the face of reality. On average, males are LESS empathic than females and individual exceptions do not alter that TENDENCY. I simply offered one of many potential reasons for the observed and verifiable differences.
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Originally Posted by Clintone
You made a potentially annoying statement. KaraZetterberg153 called you on it...rightfully so. Don't make annoying statements if you don't want people to be annoyed.
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Originally Posted by KaraZetterberg153
I attribute it to the prevailing ethos of each generation, the one older being a bit incapable of accepting women as equals. Protest you may, but it's a useless exercise. Breaking out of the strangulation of one's upbringing is near impossible for most.
To set the record straight, KARA brought up gender with an annoying accusation about older generations (of men presumably) not accepting women as equals. (Post#146) I happen to be an older generation male and was annoyed by that. But I preferred to deal with it indirectly using a different post (Post#157).
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
You cannot change the evolutionary realities because they offend your preferred views. I have zero interest in controlling anyone. The topic I was responding to is the one you brought up which was empathy as it relates to spirituality.
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Originally Posted by Clintone
But you have no idea if your stated reasons have anything whatsoever to do with KaraZetterberg153's motivations. That is why she was correct in describing your statements as prejudiced. She was not talking about female perspectives in general. She was talking about her perspective. Her perspective might have resulted from the processes you mentioned, or not. I really don't see it a perspective some men wouldn't have. There's nothing purely feminine about this:
I thought Kara's motivations about female equality were fairly obvious yet I did not directly address her motivations.
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Originally Posted by Clintone
Why did you and Mystic bring up gender anyway?
It should be clear now that gender was brought up by Kara.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 04-29-2019 at 03:22 PM..
It is likely that I am not learned enough to understand this, as are some of the posters in this forum. By it appears to me that if you read Sam Harris, spiritual development is possible within the context of a-theism. Not based on dogma or any deities, but some idea of the human spirit. Soul may not be the right word.
Who besides Harris supports this, I wonder.
I do.
I'm highly spiritual.
Soul is good. Soul is synonymous with psyche and spirit. It's your personality; what makes you be.
You know where I was this morning? Walking in the woods with my dog. I'm not a nature-lover by any stretch of the imagination, but I like the forest. You can hear leaves rustling, branches creaking, watch the trees sway, hear animals and insects, track animals. It's good for me.
I like the sea, too. I go to Sarasota and you can walk out a few hundred meters on the shelf at low-tide. At dusk, the skates come in to feed and you can grab onto them and they'll tow you around. Sometimes dolphins come in, but they never get close enough for me to touch.
At the Black Sea there's lots of jelly-fish. I'm not allergic, so it's okay if they sting me, and they're fun to watch. My boat's docked at Vama Veche, but sailing on the Black Sea isn't really spiritual for me, so I go to the Aegean.
The first time I went years ago, I was going through the Straits and I didn't know you weren't supposed to over-take other boats. They have a separate channel just for pleasure-craft, you know, so you don't get run-over by a merchant vessel or warship. I was cruising at maybe 8 knots or so, passing other boats and the Turkish navy or whoever came out and yelled at me.
That wasn't spiritual. But pulling the sails down and dropping anchor in the Aegean, sitting there sipping on Scotch with the boat rocking and water lapping on the hull, with the islands, and sky and clouds, it's quite calming and you can let yourself go.
That works for me, but obviously not for others, and it doesn't have to.
You have to find what works for you. Maybe that's listening to music or playing music, maybe painting or sculpting, or maybe even wood-working or modelling, or meditating.
I meditate, not to get spiritual, but so I can hope to sleep all freaking night.
The whole point of getting spiritual is to be disconnected, yet grounded, if that makes any sense.
The goal of being spiritual is to achieve an inner-calm or inner-peace.
To set the record straight, KARA brought up gender with an annoying accusation about older generations (of men presumably) not accepting women as equals. (Post#146) I happen to be an older generation male and was annoyed by that. But I preferred to deal with it indirectly using a different post (Post#157).
I thought Kara's motivations about female equality were fairly obvious yet I did not directly address her motivations.
It should be clear now that gender was brought up by Kara.
It is. My bad. I'd read through that section before. I'd missed that though...or maybe I just hadn't thought about it much. She started that route of discussion. You get one free condemnation of me that I probably don't deserve, which you may use at any time, if you wish.
I wonder if an atheism/feminism thread would be appropriate to make? It doesn't have anything to do with religion...but I know there's been a schism between many atheists that centers around disagreements relating to social progressivism, including feminism.
It is not gender. It is science! Humans have sexual dimorphism and hence the male is larger, stronger and more aggressive. That influences the proclivity to so-called spirituality. And BTW, that biology is the cause of male hegemony throughout history.
I find the fact that you seem to suspect I don't believe in sexual dimorphism unsettling. The extreme majority of rational people will believe in some kind of sexual dimorphism. What many people do wonder about is the possibility that many or even most of the behaviors typically thought of as feminine or masculine are taught by culture. The fact that so many people see screaming, blue-haired eccentrics with gender identities of "attack helicopter" hiding under every rock makes me think the screaming, blue haired eccentrics with gender identities of "attack helicopter" are likely less of a problem, due to their relatively low numbers, than the mentalities of the people constantly on the lookout for them.
The person you responded to did bring up gender first though, which I missed. My bad. Sorry for accusing you and Mystic of bringing up gender for no reason.
Also, your post was unclear. It does not follow that people being smaller and less aggressive will make people be more spiritual.
To clarify, I was aware that I brought up the subject of gender, but it was within the context of arguing with a specific person, someone who had written me privately, attempting to tell me what to do/think. I don't think it should be taken out of context and I don't think it's relevant to the discussion.
I would point out that it's a rare person who is aware of their own bias, especially if the issue works in their favor. How many people are willing to give up power in the interest of justice or fairness? To suggest that women tend to be more spiritual due to their gender devalues both women and spirituality, and is prejudicial at its base.
Last edited by KaraZetterberg153; 04-30-2019 at 08:52 AM..
Soul is good. Soul is synonymous with psyche and spirit. It's your personality; what makes you be.
You know where I was this morning? Walking in the woods with my dog. I'm not a nature-lover by any stretch of the imagination, but I like the forest. You can hear leaves rustling, branches creaking, watch the trees sway, hear animals and insects, track animals. It's good for me.
I like the sea, too. I go to Sarasota and you can walk out a few hundred meters on the shelf at low-tide. At dusk, the skates come in to feed and you can grab onto them and they'll tow you around. Sometimes dolphins come in, but they never get close enough for me to touch.
At the Black Sea there's lots of jelly-fish. I'm not allergic, so it's okay if they sting me, and they're fun to watch. My boat's docked at Vama Veche, but sailing on the Black Sea isn't really spiritual for me, so I go to the Aegean.
The first time I went years ago, I was going through the Straits and I didn't know you weren't supposed to over-take other boats. They have a separate channel just for pleasure-craft, you know, so you don't get run-over by a merchant vessel or warship. I was cruising at maybe 8 knots or so, passing other boats and the Turkish navy or whoever came out and yelled at me.
That wasn't spiritual. But pulling the sails down and dropping anchor in the Aegean, sitting there sipping on Scotch with the boat rocking and water lapping on the hull, with the islands, and sky and clouds, it's quite calming and you can let yourself go.
That works for me, but obviously not for others, and it doesn't have to.
You have to find what works for you. Maybe that's listening to music or playing music, maybe painting or sculpting, or maybe even wood-working or modelling, or meditating.
I meditate, not to get spiritual, but so I can hope to sleep all freaking night.
The whole point of getting spiritual is to be disconnected, yet grounded, if that makes any sense.
The goal of being spiritual is to achieve an inner-calm or inner-peace.
Some points that come to mind, in no particular order of importance:
1. The existence of the soul is controversial and is by no means established. It may well be a poetic fancy with no reality in fact.
2. It's nice to walk in nature but that doesn't make one spiritual.
3. I think spirituality has to do with "oneness," the "oversoul" or the unity in all things. You can subtract the language of god(s) and soul, and what is left is the physics of the material universe, and the dissolution of separatness.
4. I don't see spirituality having a goal: it just is. (I don't believe it's somehow tied to individual mental health!)
To clarify, I was aware that I brought up the subject of gender, but it was within the context of arguing with a specific person, someone who had written me privately, attempting to tell me what to do/think. I don't think it should be taken out of context and I don't think it's relevant to the discussion.
I would point out that it's a rare person who is aware of their own bias, especially if the issue works in their favor. How many people are willing to give up power in the interest of justice or fairness? To suggest that women tend to be more spiritual due to their gender devalues both women and spirituality, and is prejudicial at its base.
I disagree.
Saying that men are different than women does not attach a value to the difference(s).
I find the fact that you seem to suspect I don't believe in sexual dimorphism unsettling. The extreme majority of rational people will believe in some kind of sexual dimorphism. What many people do wonder about is the possibility that many or even most of the behaviors typically thought of as feminine or masculine are taught by culture. The fact that so many people see screaming, blue-haired eccentrics with gender identities of "attack helicopter" hiding under every rock makes me think the screaming, blue haired eccentrics with gender identities of "attack helicopter" are likely less of a problem, due to their relatively low numbers, than the mentalities of the people constantly on the lookout for them.
The person you responded to did bring up gender first though, which I missed. My bad. Sorry for accusing you and Mystic of bringing up gender for no reason.
Also, your post was unclear. It does not follow that people being smaller and less aggressive will make people be more spiritual.
Biology cannot be ignored. The male had to battle other males to have sex with the female. So nature selected bigger males with greater strength and aggression.
The question is whether agreeable behavior and compassion leads to a more spiritual person. I don't know the answer. However, frequency of church attendance and importance of religion is greater for women. https://www.pewforum.org/religious-l...r-composition/
I am using "frequency of church attendance and importance of religion" as surrogates for spirituality.
To clarify, I was aware that I brought up the subject of gender, but it was within the context of arguing with a specific person, someone who had written me privately, attempting to tell me what to do/think. I don't think it should be taken out of context and I don't think it's relevant to the discussion.
I would point out that it's a rare person who is aware of their own bias, especially if the issue works in their favor. How many people are willing to give up power in the interest of justice or fairness? To suggest that women tend to be more spiritual due to their gender devalues both women and spirituality, and is prejudicial at its base.
But, women and men differ in personality traits. Men and women are mostly the same, but subtle differences cannot be ignored as these can influence behaviors.
Abstract
This paper investigates gender differences in personality traits, both at the level of the Big Five and at the sublevel of two aspects within each Big Five domain. Replicating previous findings, women reported higher Big Five Extraversion, Agreeableness, and Neuroticism scores than men. However, more extensive gender differences were found at the level of the aspects, with significant gender differences appearing in both aspects of every Big Five trait. For Extraversion, Openness, and Conscientiousness, the gender differences were found to diverge at the aspect level, rendering them either small or undetectable at the Big Five level. These findings clarify the nature of gender differences in personality and highlight the utility of measuring personality at the aspect level.
Keywords: personality, Big Five, gender differences
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