Why religion is dangerous (organizations, Islam, cross, demons)
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The problem is that many atheists have a lot in common with evangelicals. This idea that all Atheists are infallible is a myth. That is why it is so much better to simply be agnostic.
Yet if somehow we were able to conce you that we are not only atheists but also agnostics you would probably redefine the word agnostic to meaning haters if Catholics or some other thing so that you can continue with your need to continue of insulting atheists
I am an agnostic atheist and you are a less than honest poster. And a broken record. No matter how many times you ignore what you are explained you have the compulsion to repeat incorrect claims. Maybe if there is a God you could turn to him in order to become a honest poster. That would be a miracle.
Expecting a robust discussion is not an ad hominem.
Words written on the computer screen are genderless.
I will be happy to start:
Here is your initial post;
The West was very religious till the 1960s. How did we get to the moon?
How come we were not cavemen? Or cavewomen?
Where were the atheists in medieval times?
Probably being burnt alive my your wonderful Catholics. Or does starting an university give them the right for burning alive and the inquisitions ?
Isn't that is what you would live to see, burning and torturing to death all of the atheists?
Yet if somehow we were able to conce you that we are not only atheists but also agnostics you would probably redefine the word agnostic to meaning haters if Catholics or some other thing so that you can continue with your need to continue of insulting atheists
I am an agnostic atheist and you are a less than honest poster. And a broken record. No matter how many times you ignore what you are explained you have the compulsion to repeat incorrect claims. Maybe if there is a God you could turn to him in order to become a honest poster. That would be a miracle.
I have to agree with what you said here, particularly the bolded. It's one thing to claim to be an agnostic or even atheist, but another when one talks like a religionist. Julian, to me, appears to be a religionist with, perhaps, a different motive.
For the love of God! Why is there so much resistance to accept there were corrupt atheists that saw "atheist-communism" as the Inquisitors saw Christianity. They simply made the atheism sacred and it became a pseudo-religion. There is one poster in this forum (perhaps more) that shows that sort of passion.
And yet churches survived in communist countries.
Do you credit all the dead Iraqi civilians as dead because of Christian Bush and Cheney.
Under your claim each and every atheist is guilty for the crimes of a Stalin however not a single Christian other than the one person himself is guilty of the crimes of a King Leopold or of Nazi Germany, or of both World Wars.
Would the execution of every single atheist for the crimes of Stalin satisfy your hatred for us being non religious. Stalin may have been an agnostic atheist so perhaps you too are guilty of all his crimes.
For the love of God! Why is there so much resistance to accepting there were corrupt atheists that saw "atheist-communism" as the Inquisitors saw Christianity? They simply made the atheism sacred and it became a pseudo-religion. There is one poster in this forum (perhaps more) that shows that sort of passion.
The resistance is not about the few corrupt atheists who gained power and committed atrocities any more than it is about the few corrupt theists who did likewise. The group of atheists you are dealing with here belongs to Arach's anti-religion category. Their entire purpose here is to prevent ANY and ALL potential arguments or facts that might be used to disparage or minimize the view of atheism for any reason. It is clear you are NOT referring to ALL atheists or even a majority, but they don't want even those few that you reference to be acknowledged as actually driven by atheism. They have no problem accepting that the few theists in the same category are somehow representative of all theist, though. Hypocrites.
If atheist were just atheists without proselytizing I would have no issues. For example I keep by agnosticism private and only discuss it among close friends. I don’t think being agnostic is a discovery that is important. I realize on my own that many bible stories were allegorical when I was a teen. But, then again the religion teachers taught that they were indeed allegorical. Were were always taught genesis was a poem.
I think society has somehow adopted secularism as a religion. There are rules we must all follow and this has been beneficial. As always there are zealots that go to far.
If religion was just seen the way you see it we probably wouldn't have' New' atheism and I'd be arguing about Pharonic Chronology on some history website.
But it isn't. It is powerful and influential and a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658
And that includes atheists groups and religion.
We are aware of that danger - we get reminded of it often enough But you are still seing atheism as some kind of Alternative doctrine to religion hoping to replace one Ism with another. but that is not what it is. it is part of a global rationalism and humanism that is the basis of human society but which is bedevilled by human instinct and problems it causes, war, racism, exploitation, gender inequality and the like. religion, like tribalism is one of these, which is why 'Tribalism' and 'Dogma' is not what atheism is about. No more than the ideals of democracy is some kind of political group trying to gain power. It just isn't like that. It is in ideal that were are pushing for, though a lot of people simply don't like either ideals. They prefer religion and /or political strongmen telling them how to think.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 06-15-2019 at 10:31 PM..
The resistance is not about the few corrupt atheists who gained power and committed atrocities any more than it is about the few corrupt theists who did likewise. The group of atheists you are dealing with here belongs to Arach's anti-religion category. Their entire purpose here is to prevent ANY and ALL potential arguments or facts that might be used to disparage or minimize the view of atheism for any reason. It is clear you are NOT referring to ALL atheists or even a majority, but they don't want even those few that you reference to be acknowledged as actually driven by atheism. They have no problem accepting that the few theists in the same category are somehow representative of all theist, though. Hypocrites.
I am not anti religious, I am anti people who use their religion as a weapon rather than a tool. Most of the atheists on this forum get along with many of the religious posters. That we haven't bought into your proclamations and earthworms are God may be the motivation to your posts.
So who was driven by a non belief in any Gods? Which of us atheists have blamed all theists for the actions of a few? Please name the atheists rather because otherwise none will be able to defend themselves from your tar brush.
The resistance is not about the few corrupt atheists who gained power and committed atrocities any more than it is about the few corrupt theists who did likewise. The group of atheists you are dealing with here belongs to Arach's anti-religion category. Their entire purpose here is to prevent ANY and ALL potential arguments or facts that might be used to disparage or minimize the view of atheism for any reason. It is clear you are NOT referring to ALL atheists or even a majority, but they don't want even those few that you reference to be acknowledged as actually driven by atheism. They have no problem accepting that the few theists in the same category are somehow representative of all theist, though. Hypocrites.
Oh no, Mystic. We are well aware that Theists come in all sizes - even Christians do. We are also well aware of the different views and ways of doing things amongst atheists. Just take prof. Stavrakopulou and her problem with Dawkins and other atheist spokespersons, or Pat Condell and his support for Brexit and (it appears) the push to close off Muslim immigration.
Take our pal Corporate Cowboy and His problems with 'New' atheism. That doesn't mean that we can't dispute their arguments, and they may have good points to make. We don't even dispute that Stalin was an atheist, but we dispute that this implies that atheists are Stalin, at least potentially, which is pretty clearly the argument being made.
I'd remind you by the way that 'anti -theist' was a term that CC raised, (and i later found out was a term that some atheists apply to themselves quite happily, rather as i happily call myself 'militant'). Arach just added that term to his pocketful of brickbats that he throws at atheists here.
Do you credit all the dead Iraqi civilians as dead because of Christian Bush and Cheney.
Under your claim each and every atheist is guilty for the crimes of a Stalin however not a single Christian other than the one person himself is guilty of the crimes of a King Leopold or of Nazi Germany, or of both World War.
Think you mean King Leopold II.
Although my opinion is that this body count competition is beyond the point and offers nothing useful to the argument, one person who would've probably strongly disagreed with me was Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain). In his autobiographical diary, on Monday, March 12, 1906, he penned his famous comments on the Moro Massacre, the US troops slaughter of Philippine Muslim rebels or "savages" as they were known then. According to the Wiki, this was the biggest massacre on record "only six Moro survivors out of a group estimated at 1,000 " or as Clemens put it, referring to the journalists' commentary of the event, "the least dangerous battle that Christian soldiers of any nationality were ever engaged in."
If you are interested, you can find Clemens' harsh comments here - MARK TWAIN'S AUTOBIOGRAPHY--VOLUME 2. It's a text of the entire book, so just do a word search for "Moro". There are also some photos available of the troops posing with their "kill" on Rare Historical Photos but I'm reluctant to link them as they are very graphic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
The group of atheists you are dealing with here belongs to Arach's anti-religion category. Their entire purpose here is to prevent ANY and ALL potential arguments or facts that might be used to disparage or minimize the view of atheism for any reason.
Let me see if I get this right. Your concern is not whether or not arguments posited here are sound but that they are put forth by what you consider to be anti-theists? Does this mean that any argument posited by a person who argues against erroneous claims made in favour of religion is automatically dismissed by you as "one of the tribe" and not worthy of consideration, even if you don't know for a fact whether they are themselves religious? Forgive me but isn't it a bit, oh I don't know, disingenuous?
Last edited by Itzpapalotl; 06-16-2019 at 03:26 AM..
Let me see if I get this right. Your concern is not whether or not arguments posited here are sound but that they are put forth by what you consider to be anti-theists? Does this mean that any argument posited by a person who argues against erroneous claims made in favour of religion is automatically dismissed by you as "one of the tribe" and not worthy of consideration, even if you don't know for a fact whether they are themselves religious? Forgive me but isn't it a bit, oh I don't know, disingenuous?
No. You have the concern reversed. The anti-religion atheists refuse to acknowledge valid facts or viewpoints that can be used to undermine the atheist viewpoint.
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But you are still seing atheism as some kind of Alternative doctrine to religion hoping to replace one Ism with another. but that is not what it is. it is part of a global rationalism and humanism that is the basis of human society but which is bedevilled by human instinct and problems it causes, war, racism, exploitation, gender inequality and the like. religion, like tribalism is one of these, which is why 'Tribalism' and 'Dogma' is not what atheism is about. No more than the ideals of democracy is some kind of political group trying to gain power. It just isn't like that. It is in ideal that were are pushing for, though a lot of people simply don't like either ideals. They prefer religion and /or political strongmen telling them how to think.
