Are the Atheist and Non-Religious discriminated against? (believe, Christ, America)

[cncracer]

I have had a number of discussions with Forum members dealing with forms of, and at times out right discrimination related to non religious people in American culture, government, and from the religious segment of that culture in general.
I think it would be of interest to see how many non religious see and feel that discrimination, and could list issues which they see as bias.

[GCSTroop]

I can't say that I've ever felt that someone has outrightly and forthrightly discriminated against me in the sense that I think of discrimination. When I think of discrimination, I think of the Old South Jim Crow Laws where blacks could only use one restroom and whites had to use another. Things of that nature.

Humans have natural prejudices and some people may go to great extents to resolve these prejudices no matter what moral "high ground" they try to use it for.

While I haven't felt discriminated against, I have certainly felt "at odds" with people over things because of my non-belief. There's always this feeling when I meet people and they ask me what church I go to that when I respond I already know what is coming and it feels very isolating. If I as a non-believer asked a person what church they went to and responded that they went to "Such and Such Church of Christ" I wonder how they would react if I feigned amazement and then asked them all about it? It's not that it poses a threat to my non-faith or anything of that nature but it's just uncomfortable to be put on a pedestal whenever you do proclaim non-faith. With that proclamation there is also the possibility that you are isolating yourself to become a target for those who are indeed prejudiced. Because thoughts are not as easy to see as different skin colors, sex, or even sexual orientation in many cases, peoples prejudices towards religious ideologies are often not brought to the surface until they are discussed.

I think that there are a large majority of religious people who don't care if you don't believe or not. I really do. What I don't like is being questioned on it every time THEY ask me what church I go to. For one, asking what church I go to shows a certain amount of ignorance in that not everyone goes to church. I've always felt that ignorance is a breeding ground for prejudice and if you are asking me what church I go to because you do not have the cognition that not EVERYONE goes to church than what is your reaction or attitude towards me going to be when I say I am an Atheist?

I can't honestly sit here and look at the things that I have and the life that I'm living and feel as if I'm being held under the thumb of "Big Religion". I'm sorry. I just can't. But if you're asking me if a certain amount of superiority seems to exist that does come from the religious right than yes I would agree to that. I also feel that much of it has to do with how you approach the situation as well. I don't think that if every time someone talked about going to church you explained to them why God most likely does not exist that they would take great offence to that. However, for some reason, it seems to be morally and socially acceptable to explain to people why you feel God does exist if they make a proclamation of Atheism. This does not constitute prejudiceness or second-class citizenship but it does make for awkward conversation and usually has to be handled like eggs.

I just don't think it should be brought up. Period. It seems to be brought up very rarely out West, in the Northeast, and other pockets of America, but where I live it feels as if everyone's first question is "Where do you go to church?" I still do not know how to respond to that question without igniting a firestorm of questions directed towards me. It doesn't mean they're being prejudiced towards me but talk about uncomfortable! Especially for a person like myself who does not like to be "put on stage" for everyone to see. I imagine a lot of Atheists are this way. In fact, a lot of people are this way.

Edit: Actually, I take that back. I was discriminated against several times for my "religious" points of view while dating girls in high school. You see, I apparently had a knack for finding girls with heavily religious families. I wasn't really anything at all in high school but I knew I had to say I believed in something. I often told the parents of the girls I was dating that I was Catholic. I always thought that this would be a good "in-between" down here. It would give the parents hope they could convert me but also give me an excuse to take their daughter out. I was actually run out of one girl's house when I told her father I was Catholic. The odd part is... I wasn't even really Catholic. I was just saying that so I could date his daughter. In fact, I actually had more prejudice against me as a "religious" person than a non-religious person. How ironic is that?

[cncracer]

Originally Posted by GCSTroop

I can't say that I've ever felt that someone has outrightly and forthrightly discriminated against me in the sense that I think of discrimination. When I think of discrimination, I think of the Old South Jim Crow Laws where blacks could only use one restroom and whites had to use another. Things of that nature.

Humans have natural prejudices and some people may go to great extents to resolve these prejudices no matter what moral "high ground" they try to use it for.

While I haven't felt discriminated against, I have certainly felt "at odds" with people over things because of my non-belief. There's always this feeling when I meet people and they ask me what church I go to that when I respond I already know what is coming and it feels very isolating. If I as a non-believer asked a person what church they went to and responded that they went to "Such and Such Church of Christ" I wonder how they would react if I feigned amazement and then asked them all about it? It's not that it poses a threat to my non-faith or anything of that nature but it's just uncomfortable to be put on a pedestal whenever you do proclaim non-faith. With that proclamation there is also the possibility that you are isolating yourself to become a target for those who are indeed prejudiced. Because thoughts are not as easy to see as different skin colors, sex, or even sexual orientation in many cases, peoples prejudices towards religious ideologies are often not brought to the surface until they are discussed.

I think that there are a large majority of religious people who don't care if you don't believe or not. I really do. What I don't like is being questioned on it every time THEY ask me what church I go to. For one, asking what church I go to shows a certain amount of ignorance in that not everyone goes to church. I've always felt that ignorance is a breeding ground for prejudice and if you are asking me what church I go to because you do not have the cognition that not EVERYONE goes to church than what is your reaction or attitude towards me going to be when I say I am an Atheist?

I can't honestly sit here and look at the things that I have and the life that I'm living and feel as if I'm being held under the thumb of "Big Religion". I'm sorry. I just can't. But if you're asking me if a certain amount of superiority seems to exist that does come from the religious right than yes I would agree to that. I also feel that much of it has to do with how you approach the situation as well. I don't think that if every time someone talked about going to church you explained to them why God most likely does not exist that they would take great offence to that. However, for some reason, it seems to be morally and socially acceptable to explain to people why you feel God does exist if they make a proclamation of Atheism. This does not constitute prejudiceness or second-class citizenship but it does make for awkward conversation and usually has to be handled like eggs.

I just don't think it should be brought up. Period. It seems to be brought up very rarely out West, in the Northeast, and other pockets of America, but where I live it feels as if everyone's first question is "Where do you go to church?" I still do not know how to respond to that question without igniting a firestorm of questions directed towards me. It doesn't mean they're being prejudiced towards me but talk about uncomfortable! Especially for a person like myself who does not like to be "put on stage" for everyone to see. I imagine a lot of Atheists are this way. In fact, a lot of people are this way.

Edit: Actually, I take that back. I was discriminated against several times for my "religious" points of view while dating girls in high school. You see, I apparently had a knack for finding girls with heavily religious families. I wasn't really anything at all in high school but I knew I had to say I believed in something. I often told the parents of the girls I was dating that I was Catholic. I always thought that this would be a good "in-between" down here. It would give the parents hope they could convert me but also give me an excuse to take their daughter out. I was actually run out of one girl's house when I told her father I was Catholic. The odd part is... I wasn't even really Catholic. I was just saying that so I could date his daughter. In fact, I actually had more prejudice against me as a "religious" person than a non-religious person. How ironic is that?

I agree there are levels of discrimination and the Jim Crow periods is one which I see as severe. I recognize the issue of violent religious discrimination falls lower than in the inquisition and even the Jim Crow period, but I think that is because it is harder to recognize. I look on your issue when you spent a week wondering about how your non-religious views would effect your job as a prime example of a form of religious discrimination.
The statements by forum members that a non religious person could not be elected to high public office is a definite flag that we have a undercurrent of discrimination, as is the low status which most religious organizations have on the non-religious.

My feelings are we survive the Jim Crow type of discrimination not because there is no discrimination but rather because they can’t brand us with an A arm band. We seem to pass as it was said in the Black and Jewish communities of the 40's, 50’s and 60’s.
I see discrimination with greater visibility in the politically red states. The blue states just think it is politically improper to show prejudice and thus there it is the most dangerous behind door type of discrimination.
Here is my start on a short list as I see it:
I find the public prayer in a congressional public meeting as a form of discrimination. If they need to pray than they should pray in their office.
I see statements on god in any government backed documents, school, office, or building as out of place and a form of discrimination.
I see the use of a bible to swear any oath on as a form of discrimination.

[esselcue]

I tend to agree with Troop here. I don't feel I have been discriminated against because most people don't know or care what my feelings or beliefs are. Since I am not Christian, I really have no feelings about it at all when there are prayers at a ball game, rodeo, boy scout meeting...just don't care. Their beliefs are theirs and if they want to pray it it no skin off of my nose. It's fine. It isn't a personal attack on me.

I work in law enfiorcement and once in a court room a man was asked to place his hand on a Bible and state he would tell the truth, the whole, truth, etc. The man shrugged and said, "Well, I am not a Christian but I will certainly tell the truth." He got a few odd looks from around the room but no one made an issue of it except for the criminal, who was on trial for murdering his own child. I thought that was rather interesting.

[GCSTroop]

Originally Posted by cncracer

I agree there are levels of discrimination and the Jim Crow periods is one which I see as severe. I recognize the issue of violent religious discrimination falls lower than in the inquisition and even the Jim Crow period, but I think that is because it is harder to recognize. I look on your issue when you spent a week wondering about how your non-religious views would effect your job as a prime example of a form of religious discrimination.
The statements by forum members that a non religious person could not be elected to high public office is a definite flag that we have a undercurrent of discrimination, as is the low status which most religious organizations have on the non-religious.

My feelings are we survive the Jim Crow type of discrimination not because there is no discrimination but rather because they can’t brand us with an A arm band. We seem to pass as it was said in the Black and Jewish communities of the 40's, 50’s and 60’s.
I see discrimination with greater visibility in the politically red states. The blue states just think it is politically improper to show prejudice and thus there it is the most dangerous behind door type of discrimination.
Here is my start on a short list as I see it:
I find the public prayer in a congressional public meeting as a form of discrimination. If they need to pray than they should pray in their office.
I see statements on god in any government backed documents, school, office, or building as out of place and a form of discrimination.
I see the use of a bible to swear any oath on as a form of discrimination.

The issue I had at work was not so much that I felt as if I was going to be discriminated against. It was not an issue of whether I would lose my job. I had no fear over that. Absolutely none whatsoever.

What I was worried about was not discrimination but being put on a pedestal in front of everyone. All the people I work with are Christian - which is absolutely fine. I get along very well with many, if not all of them. What I didn't want to have happen was to have a big spotlight on me so that everyone could ask me why I don't believe. I don't like being the center of attention and the best way to not be the center of attention is to not discuss things you are at odds with.

Thus far, I have not been put on a spotlight and I've got a great deal of respect for my co-worker for not going around and starting rumors and talking about me behind my back. I think it says far more about his character than his religion and that's ultimately what I've been getting at the last few weeks. People's religions are just masks for what they really are underneath. Their gods, their excuses, their religious justifications for the things that they do, and their vindications and judgments...it's all about what kind of person they really are and that is what they project onto their religion.

Anyway, I guess what I'm getting at is that being put on a pedestal and being discriminated against are two different things. However, to many of us, being put on a pedestal can often feel very discriminating just by the nature of our own personalities. That being said, I would never put my hand on a Bible and take an oath - absolutely not.

[Huckleberry3911948]

discrimination is a charge that gets used to excess, like Visa card.
i have seen some good atheist posts on this forum and some civil responses.
actually gotten to know a few agnostics and appreciate them since i have been here.
cdf is doing its job, a window to the world and better understanding of others.

[MontanaGuy]

I've never experienced any sort of discrimination and I don't think it's widespread but I do think there can be problems being an atheist and one of my sisters told me about her experience at her old job and she's an atheist like myself but doesn't really talk about it very much. Her supervisor at the bank she worked in was very religious and was always talking about his religious beliefs and how important they were to him. She told me that she had a very strong feeling that if she would have told her boss that she wasn't a believer it would have caused at least some bad feelings and maybe more so she just said as little as possible when he started talking religion and smiled and nodded her head without trying to engage him in the conversations. Apparently he never asked her about her religious beliefs so he wasn't testing her or baiting her, he was just a man whose life revolved around his religion so he talked about it all the time. I really don't think the workplace is an appropriate place for this when you're someone's supervisor because it puts them in an awkward situation if they don't happen to share the same beliefs. This doesn't rise to level of something like racism but it can be a problem in certain circumstances.

[Haaziq]

I've never run into anything besides the incident I made a thread about a few months back.

[bjh]

Imo "being put on a pedestal" means to be admired. Perhaps being made the center of attention is a more apt description.

Discrimination may be overused by some when it is used as a form of discrimination itself, ie polital correctness run amok. But when someone is treated less well in any way because they are different that is discrimination. This can be in a job, housing, friendship, even public courtesy or the lack thereof.

I have been treated poorly by Christians on numerous occasions. I have even tried to dodge this by respectfully explaining to Xtians that I would rather not discuss religion only to have them use that wish against me too!

However, having said that, some xtians are kind people who are completely cool with my having different beliefs, while others cheerfully inform me that I will go to hell. That cheerfulness underscores the sadism of such beliefs.

[Rocket Power]

Just going from personal experience, I'd have to say no.

If I wore what I believed on my sleeve, things might be a little different....or not.