Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-22-2010, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 25,179,640 times
Reputation: 5219

Advertisements

I'm an atheist and I'm a non-theist. But mythunderstood is right: Theism/atheism and gnosticism/agnosticism are measures of two different qualities. I consider myself an agnostic-atheist, since I don't think there is any way to absolutely know whether there is a supernatural realm or not, but it makes no sense to me to believe in a deity whose existence is open to grave doubt. I do know that the idea of an anthropomorphic god is ludicrous, as it only reflects the egotism and the paucity of imagination of humanity. If there were a god, it would look like us? Uh-uh.

I can't prove there is no god, but I don't have to. The burden of proof lies upon the believers, and they have not made a good case for it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-22-2010, 02:50 PM
 
1,243 posts, read 1,566,974 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
I can't prove there is no god, but I don't have to.
... if you want to be known as an agnostic.

Quote:
The burden of proof lies upon the believers
To prove the atheist thesis?

What a strange, darkened world this has become.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-22-2010, 03:26 PM
 
2,031 posts, read 2,986,948 times
Reputation: 1379
Quote:
Originally Posted by shibata View Post
absence of evidence is not evidence of absence
Yes, it is.

Absence of evidence is not proof of absence. But then, science rarely deals with proof in the strict sense of the word. It is evidence of absence.

For example, the absence of evidence for leprechauns is indeed evidence that there are no leprechauns.

Anyone who relies on a cliche for logical reasoning is a fool.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-22-2010, 03:36 PM
 
1,243 posts, read 1,566,974 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyageur View Post
Yes, it is.
If evidence can be reasonably expected- but it isn't.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-22-2010, 05:02 PM
 
76 posts, read 138,098 times
Reputation: 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by shibata View Post
... if you want to be known as an agnostic.


To prove the atheist thesis?

What a strange, darkened world this has become.
To quote Carl Sagan, extraordinary claims (e.g., the claim of a deity) require extraordinary evidence. The burden of proof here is on the believer not the skeptic.

As for the world having become a strange and darkened place... has it not always been so? We are creatures struggling for survival, which can make life, at times, brutal and grim. Has religion lightened the world? Has Christianity? I don't think so. The only light we've ever had is that brought by reason, on the one hand, and by love on the other. Neither of these require Jesus or Muhammad or Buddha or faith. Persistence and courage certainly, but not faith. Not religion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-22-2010, 05:07 PM
 
1,243 posts, read 1,566,974 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al555 View Post
To quote Carl Sagan, extraordinary claims (e.g., the claim of a deity) require extraordinary evidence.
What claim, extraordinary or otherwise?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-22-2010, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 25,179,640 times
Reputation: 5219
Quote:
Originally Posted by shibata View Post
... if you want to be known as an agnostic.
No, I can't prove there is no god whether I "want to be known as an agnostic" (!) or not. And you can't prove that there is.

Quote:
What a strange, darkened world this has become.
I agree with you, but for the opposing reason: Reason! IMO, religious fanaticism is the darkening agent.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-23-2010, 02:08 AM
 
1,243 posts, read 1,566,974 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
No, I can't prove there is no god whether I "want to be known as an agnostic" (!) or not.
Progress.

Quote:
And you can't prove that there is.
Would I want to?

Quote:
I agree with you, but for the opposing reason: Reason! IMO, religious fanaticism is the darkening agent.
That is the darkness- lightened just a little by IMO.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-23-2010, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 25,179,640 times
Reputation: 5219
Why would you want to believe in something that you freely admit there is no proof for? The "explanation" that 'if we could prove it, we wouldn't need to have faith/believe in it' makes no sense. What you seem to be saying is that you believe in it only because you want to.

The mindset which states that you believe and don't even want to be able to proof the veracity of it, yet condemn others because they can't prove their stances, is more than a little illogical. Why does your belief get a free pass?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-23-2010, 02:58 PM
 
1,243 posts, read 1,566,974 times
Reputation: 56
Why would a person want to believe in something?

Many reasons. A person might want to believe that a particular horse will win a particular race. A person might want to believe that a particular crime will go undetected. A person might want to believe that the price of a favorite tipple will halve. And so on.

Why would a person believe in something that he or she admits there is no proof for?

Who knows.

Why would a person believe in something that he or she admits there is no empirical proof for?

Because there is non-empirical proof.

The "explanation" that 'if we could prove it, we wouldn't need to have faith/believe in it' makes no sense.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top