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So I've been an Atheist/Agnostic (I drift between the two from time to time) for about a year in a half, going on two years now. Before I fully rejected Christianity and all other faiths, I would sparingly go to church but once I was sure in my non-belief I completely stopped going.
It wasn't too much of a big deal for about the first six months to a year with my parents. They would mention that I should go and I would just blow it off and we would go along about our business.
But these last six to eight months have been pure hell when it comes to the religion issue. I haven't told my parents (or any of my family for that matter) that I'm no longer a Christian, but I'm pretty sure they have figured out by now or just think I'm back-sliding or whatever.
After months of hassling to go to church with them, I finally went to church with them last Sunday (my dad was getting ordained and it was so much easier to go along rather than to be hassled for the rest of the week).
Now since I went last week they want me to continue to go. I haven't said anything but I think the expressions I give them speak louder than words. I refuse to go and be preached at about something I absolutely do not believe in. I can't even trick myself into believing in any of that stuff anymore because I know better and I know it's not the truth for me. I'm just so sick and tired of being pestered about this religion crap and I know I can't even sit down and have a civilized logical conversation with my family about it. The minute I say something contrary to Christianity is the minute that I have people jumping down my throat and not even allowing me to speak.
I've only got a few more months of this to live in before I move to another city, but, I don't know if I can last that long. This is starting to make me go insane inside. I was thinking of just joining a universalist church or a church more open minded just so I can get them off of my back until I move.
Is there anyone who has been through the same situation or is currently going through this debacle?
Yes. I would just keep it short and simple, and be a duck (let it run off your back like water).
"We want you to go to church!"
Smile, "No thank you."
Now, it sounds like you are living with them? If they demand that you go to church as a condition of living there, then you have to go. Price you pay sometimes. Take advantage of the situation and ask questions of the preacher, preferably in front of the congregation, that demonstrate the weaknesses. Be polite, don't attack, just ask in a curious way. Eventually someone will either ask you not to come back, or your parents will simply drop that requirement.
After months of hassling to go to church with them, I finally went to church with them last Sunday (my dad was getting ordained and it was so much easier to go along rather than to be hassled for the rest of the week).
Now since I went last week they want me to continue to go. I haven't said anything but I think the expressions I give them speak louder than words. I refuse to go and be preached at about something I absolutely do not believe in. I can't even trick myself into believing in any of that stuff anymore because I know better and I know it's not the truth for me. I'm just so sick and tired of being pestered about this religion crap and I know I can't even sit down and have a civilized logical conversation with my family about it. The minute I say something contrary to Christianity is the minute that I have people jumping down my throat and not even allowing me to speak.
I've only got a few more months of this to live in before I move to another city, but, I don't know if I can last that long. This is starting to make me go insane inside. I was thinking of just joining a universalist church or a church more open minded just so I can get them off of my back until I move.
Is there anyone who has been through the same situation or is currently going through this debacle?
You don't say how old you are, but I'm assuming at least 18 or very close to it if your forthcoming move has to do with going away to college. Either way, you are grown up enough to make your own decisions, and it's unfortunate that they feel compelled to try to nag, guilt, cajole, or otherwise manipulate you into going.
Thing is, you don't have to engage them. It's your decision to discuss or not discuss religion as you see fit. I would just give a polite version of if I were you. "Thanks, but I'm not interested." If you're an adult, it's really none of their business, anyway.
Someone else had a similar predicament a few months ago. You might find what folks said [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/atheism-agnosticism/875688-trying-not-hurt-family.html"]on that thread[/URL] to be helpful.
Also, as that thread shows, just because you move out, that doesn't mean they'll stop pestering you about it.
That's a tough one. As "scarmig" commented I too believe you're living with them and while in their house you may need to abide by thier rules. Its a bit difficult for me to understand the unwillingness of a parent to accept the religious stand of thier child. I think a passive way you could reach your goal is to "spoil the milk". Start asking logical questions and perhaps your parents will leave you alone wanting to avoid unanswerable questions. You know, "What did Jesus do wrong?" or mr favorite "Who did Adam and Eve's kids marry?" Yes my comments have a sting to them but I think they will work.
Good luck!
Oh gosh, I almost forgot; mabe first you can try to explain to them you would like to explore other religious realms before you commit more time into one religion. This could buy you time and ease them into the fact that you may not follow their faiths.
Yes. I would just keep it short and simple, and be a duck (let it run off your back like water).
"We want you to go to church!"
Smile, "No thank you."
Lol, I wish I could do that. A conversation like that would go as such.
"We want you to go to church!"
Smile, "No thank you."
"You don't have a choice in the matter, either you go, or you're disowned from our family. We can't have heathen living in our house or around us. We'll pray for you."
And then they would proceed to lay hands on me and speak in tongues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarmig
Now, it sounds like you are living with them? If they demand that you go to church as a condition of living there, then you have to go. Price you pay sometimes. Take advantage of the situation and ask questions of the preacher, preferably in front of the congregation, that demonstrate the weaknesses. Be polite, don't attack, just ask in a curious way. Eventually someone will either ask you not to come back, or your parents will simply drop that requirement.
Mmm, I can still see horrible horrible scenarios from this. I don't know if you know this, but black families and churches are radically different from any other social structure I have seen thus far. I think asking questions in front of the preacher and congregation would be worse than just privately telling my parents I'm a non-believer. I think I would be disowned far quicker and with much more disdain than I would if I had just told them privately. At the church my parents attend (and most black churches for that matter), reputation is everything and how your children turn out is also apart of that reputation. My parents would feel as if they raised me wrong (which they didn't, they did a fine job) and other members would look at them the same way. To them, it would be the ultimate humiliation and I would never ever hear the end of it.
But I think I will just go so I can stop hearing the fall out over it. I'll lose my day to catch up on homework and sleep but I think it'll be worth it just to hear a temporary end to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avienne
You don't say how old you are, but I'm assuming at least 18 or very close to it if your forthcoming move has to do with going away to college. Either way, you are grown up enough to make your own decisions, and it's unfortunate that they feel compelled to try to nag, guilt, cajole, or otherwise manipulate you into going.
I'm 18 (and graduating this spring with my A.A.) and I'll be going off to college in January of next year. I'm an adult and have made that clear to my parents but they just don't see it that way I suppose. To them I'm still a child that has no say so over my life and must live according to how they want me to. I'm not saying they don't let me make my own decisions about my life, but, when it comes to religion, I don't have a choice. At all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avienne
Thing is, you don't have to engage them.
I rarely do. The last thing I said negatively about Christianity was that Christmas was a pagan holiday and Christians jumped on that to gain more believers. The fall out over that statement wasn't as bad as I suspected but they were still huffing and puffing over it (and that was over a year and some months ago).
Usually when they try to engage me with religious talk, I just leave the room or don't respond. It's getting harder and harder to do that everyday though, but, I fear what would happen if I let loose and really told them what I really think about their religion. I think the scenario that I imagine has helped to keep my mouth shut for so long.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avienne
It's your decision to discuss or not discuss religion as you see fit. I would just give a polite version of if I were you. "Thanks, but I'm not interested." If you're an adult, it's really none of their business, anyway.
Hmph, that's not a valid reason in my house. My brother is twenty two and married and my mom still sends him and his wife text messages to go to church and he moved out long, long ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avienne
Someone else had a similar predicament a few months ago. You might find what folks said on that thread to be helpful.
Also, as that thread shows, just because you move out, that doesn't mean they'll stop pestering you about it.
Thanks for the link. I know about Lamplight and his situation all too well. I know that distance means that they won't stop pressuring me about it, but, I'll at least not have to hear it on a daily basis and I can lie to buy time until I feel comfortable telling them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmikeman
That's a tough one. As "scarmig" commented I too believe you're living with them and while in their house you may need to abide by thier rules. Its a bit difficult for me to understand the unwillingness of a parent to accept the religious stand of thier child. I think a passive way you could reach your goal is to "spoil the milk". Start asking logical questions and perhaps your parents will leave you alone wanting to avoid unanswerable questions. You know, "What did Jesus do wrong?" or mr favorite "Who did Adam and Eve's kids marry?" Yes my comments have a sting to them but I think they will work.
Good luck!
I think that may make it worse than anything. Hell my dad literally talks to himself everyday as if he's talking to God or something and is answering him and talking back. They would just give me weird looks and then further urge me to attend church with more diligence. I wish it was as simple as telling them that I don't believe and they would still accept me but I just don't see it happening in that way. My parents are hardcore fundamentalist and they think their kids should be too.
I've only got a few more months of this to live in before I move to another city, but, I don't know if I can last that long. This is starting to make me go insane inside. I was thinking of just joining a universalist church or a church more open minded just so I can get them off of my back until I move.
Just hang in there is the best advice I can give you.
I used to have to pretend and play along as well. One thing I did when I got my first car: show up to church when there's only about 5-10 minutes of it left
This can be hard to pull off, though, if you're always with others in your family.
I rarely do. The last thing I said negatively about Christianity was that Christmas was a pagan holiday and Christians jumped on that to gain more believers. The fall out over that statement wasn't as bad as I suspected but they were still huffing and puffing over it (and that was over a year and some months ago).
Usually when they try to engage me with religious talk, I just leave the room or don't respond. It's getting harder and harder to do that everyday though, but, I fear what would happen if I let loose and really told them what I really think about their religion. I think the scenario that I imagine has helped to keep my mouth shut for so long.
Keep doing that. Seriously. Eventually they will stop, or you will move out first.
I kind of feel bad for them. They are alienating their child. I can't imagine that any parent would take joy in losing their child over something like that. But that's life with fundamentalists, it seems. They are too focused on "saving" your soul to realize the rift they are causing in their own family. My uncle and cousins did the same thing with everyone else in my big Italian family when they became born-again Christians. It's both ironic and tragic.
As far as saying "negative" things about Christianity, what you noted is not "negative" or a "criticism." It is a statement of fact. But there are some people in this world who are going to be hypersensitive about their beliefs. I'm running into it right here on these very boards. There's a thread about "what you hate to see hated on," and someone spoke about holidays and people who live simple lives according to their belief in God. Sure, I can understand that. Good. We've got that covered. Hating people for their belief in God is bad. So I said I hate to see atheists and liberals hated on, among other people (I had a big ol' list) who weren't represented in the thread yet. Right away, someone comes back "What about Christians and conservatives?"
I thought, "What about them? You covered them already." See, I said absolutely nothing to neglect anyone, only to include new groups, but this person just had to fire away because his group was not included in my particular post. He could only see my words as aimed at him personally. Big leap of faith on his part, no pun intended.
Likewise, if you point out that the Christian holidays were deliberately aligned with pagan ones, some people are going to take that personally, too. It doesn't matter that you can point to history to back your statement of fact up. They take it as an affront on their beliefs.
Which, like what your parents are doing, is both sad and tragic. I grew up Catholic, 12 years of Catholic school, the whole bit. One thing the nuns, priests, teachers, and parents tried to drive home is that things like dates were superficial. What mattered is whether, as a Catholic and follower of Christ, you tried to live your life with love, charity, kindness, and forgiveness. It was the original "WWJD" way of teaching. Anything else was just trapping for logistic's sake.
But from what I can see, fundamentalists are more caught up more in the surface of "Christianity" than in the practice of it. They are very literal people, and they very rarely search for deeper meaning or different angles to the same picture. They sweat the small stuff. They look at the words on a page of the Bible, and analytical and philosophical thought just stop. Part of this is fear: They are so terrified of going to some sort of perdition when they die that they find "safety" in not questioning, analyzing, or delving for deeper meaning or understanding, never mind accepting that other people are different. Just do what you're told, and you'll be rewarded, as it were, and they are afraid that you'll go to perdition if you don't obey, too. Their nagging is coming from a place of love, believe it or not.
To make a long story longer, don't expect three-dimensional thought from two-dimensional people. You'll only get frustrated.
The best thing you can do--and this really is the height of irony--is to live how they, as Christians, should be living: Accept them as they are, treat them with respect (which is not the same thing as doing what they tell you regarding church), love them if not their actions, and build on the positives in your relationship by finding things in common to share and be joyful about.
Heh, forgive them, for they know not what they do, as it were.
Maybe your actions will speak louder than their words, but if not, you can at least come away from it with your self-respect, knowing that it's them and not you.
Sorry for the novella. As with Lamplight, your story touches me, so I feel compelled to share.
Call their bluff. They say they will disown you? Tell them... "This is who I am. If this is not who you want for a child, I can't change that. Disown me if you must. I love you, and I'm proud to be your son, regardless."
And then if it happens, it happens. You are young enough that these things are recoverable. Unlike you, I was 13 when I told my parents, so I had five years of fighting about it before I got out.
Lol, I wish I could do that. A conversation like that would go as such.
"We want you to go to church!"
Smile, "No thank you."
"You don't have a choice in the matter, either you go, or you're disowned from our family. We can't have heathen living in our house or around us. We'll pray for you."
And then they would proceed to lay hands on me and speak in tongues.
I say let them disown you.. seriously. No offense, but you need to get as far away from these nut cases as possible, for your own good and sanity. You'll find/build a much better family among the intelligent, educated non-theist crowd. That you are as sane as you seem to be after having been raised by these people is a miracle. Most kids don't make it past even mild coercion and indoctrination, much less than what you've had to put up with.
Keep doing that. Seriously. Eventually they will stop, or you will move out first.
I kind of feel bad for them. They are alienating their child. I can't imagine that any parent would take joy in losing their child over something like that. But that's life with fundamentalists, it seems. They are too focused on "saving" your soul to realize the rift they are causing in their own family. My uncle and cousins did the same thing with everyone else in my big Italian family when they became born-again Christians. It's both ironic and tragic.
I know and that's what makes it that much harder for me. I love my parents: religious quirks and all. And the thought of losing their love and support over this terrifies me and makes me sad. Sometimes I really do wish I was still a christian, just so I wouldn't be in this predicament, but then I realize that, that isn't a plausible thing for me anymore. Knowing what I know now, I just can't go back to being a Christian. I can't go back to believing in that stuff when I know it isn't true and is not for me. I just...can't force myself to lie to my conscious and brain to that extent: I just can't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avienne
As far as saying "negative" things about Christianity, what you noted is not "negative" or a "criticism." It is a statement of fact. But there are some people in this world who are going to be hypersensitive about their beliefs. I'm running into it right here on these very boards. There's a thread about "what you hate to see hated on," and someone spoke about holidays and people who live simple lives according to their belief in God. Sure, I can understand that. Good. We've got that covered. Hating people for their belief in God is bad. So I said I hate to see atheists and liberals hated on, among other people (I had a big ol' list) who weren't represented in the thread yet. Right away, someone comes back "What about Christians and conservatives?"
I thought, "What about them? You covered them already." See, I said absolutely nothing to neglect anyone, only to include new groups, but this person just had to fire away because his group was not included in my particular post. He could only see my words as aimed at him personally. Big leap of faith on his part, no pun intended.
Likewise, if you point out that the Christian holidays were deliberately aligned with pagan ones, some people are going to take that personally, too. It doesn't matter that you can point to history to back your statement of fact up. They take it as an affront on their beliefs.
Which, like what your parents are doing, is both sad and tragic. I grew up Catholic, 12 years of Catholic school, the whole bit. One thing the nuns, priests, teachers, and parents tried to drive home is that things like dates were superficial. What mattered is whether, as a Catholic and follower of Christ, you tried to live your life with love, charity, kindness, and forgiveness. It was the original "WWJD" way of teaching. Anything else was just trapping for logistic's sake.
But from what I can see, fundamentalists are more caught up more in the surface of "Christianity" than in the practice of it. They are very literal people, and they very rarely search for deeper meaning or different angles to the same picture. They sweat the small stuff. They look at the words on a page of the Bible, and analytical and philosophical thought just stop. Part of this is fear: They are so terrified of going to some sort of perdition when they die that they find "safety" in not questioning, analyzing, or delving for deeper meaning or understanding, never mind accepting that other people are different. Just do what you're told, and you'll be rewarded, as it were, and they are afraid that you'll go to perdition if you don't obey, too. Their nagging is coming from a place of love, believe it or not.
To make a long story longer, don't expect three-dimensional thought from two-dimensional people. You'll only get frustrated.
The best thing you can do--and this really is the height of irony--is to live how they, as Christians, should be living: Accept them as they are, treat them with respect (which is not the same thing as doing what they tell you regarding church), love them if not their actions, and build on the positives in your relationship by finding things in common to share and be joyful about.
Heh, forgive them, for they know not what they do, as it were.
Maybe your actions will speak louder than their words, but if not, you can at least come away from it with your self-respect, knowing that it's them and not you.
Sorry for the novella. As with Lamplight, your story touches me, so I feel compelled to share.
I don't mind the long post; I more so appreciate your concern and thought you put into it. I know my parents will find out sooner or later what I do and don't believe (hopefully in the later when I'm not in their house anymore). I just hope that they will still treat me and still show me the love and respect I show them. Cause, no matter how much I seriously dislike how they try to cajole me into going to church and being a "good Christian" I still love them and would like for them to be apart of my life and (hopefully in the future) children's life and such. I don't want to alienate from them to a point where my kids won't know who my parents or my side of the family are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarmig
Hmm.
Call their bluff. They say they will disown you? Tell them... "This is who I am. If this is not who you want for a child, I can't change that. Disown me if you must. I love you, and I'm proud to be your son, regardless."
And then if it happens, it happens. You are young enough that these things are recoverable. Unlike you, I was 13 when I told my parents, so I had five years of fighting about it before I got out.
Daughter you mean.
Jesus five years? I think I would have been tearing my hair out and biting my nails down to the quick if I had to live with this nonsense for that long. You're a trooper scarmig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuixoticHobbit
I say let them disown you.. seriously. No offense, but you need to get as far away from these nut cases as possible, for your own good and sanity. You'll find/build a much better family among the intelligent, educated non-theist crowd. That you are as sane as you seem to be after having been raised by these people is a miracle. Most kids don't make it past even mild coercion and indoctrination, much less than what you've had to put up with.
I think you're being too judgmental and close minded about this QuixoticHobbit and I really don't appreciate you calling my parents names and making assumptions when you don't really know them. I understand you are trying to help, but that's just plain out rude. My parents are good people, they really are. They just let their faith dictate their lives (as most Christians do); it's called fundamentalism. My parents are intelligent, educated, and sane. Thanks Hobbit, but no thanks, I think you're approach to things is on the not-viable list in my situation.
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if I were you. "Thanks, but I'm not interested." If you're an adult, it's really none of their business, anyway.
