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And you conclude that I'm "the one who associated going to high rankings schools as wanting to "win".
You questioned whether being the best of something other than the best had any value. That smacks of elitism to me, and I don't fully fathom the need to be the best of the best. Who cares, really? Are we being graded?
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Go big or go home. You should strive to be the best at anything you do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcsteiner
If my kid is able to excel and prepare for college in his current environment, isn't that enough? If not, why not? Enlighten me, please.
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Not if they aren't pushed to do their best. What kind of paren't doesn't want their kids to be all they can?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcsteiner
Besides, you say it's what "most people want". I seriously question that.
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If most people didn't want it the prices in areas with good schools would reflect that. Currently, it shows people put a high value on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcsteiner
What most of the people that *I* know want is to create the very best opportunities for their children that they reasonably can, but that includes having them in any school where they can learn, prosper, and grow. For some, it might be having them compete with only "the best of the best" in an elite school like Walton, certainly, but for others it might mean going to a school which has a specialized program that their children can take advantage of, or which has a different pace the kid does well in, or perhaps simply the school where all of my kids' friends are also attending.
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Great, if a schools offers the best for your child then go for it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcsteiner
Besides, "best of the best" isn't a meaningful statement in some states, and the fact that Georgia has such large perceived (if not actual) differences in quality ... even between schools in the same school system ... suggests a systemic flaw in the state's education system, IMO.
It favors those with resources (usually kids in wealthy suburbs) over those who don't have them (usually kids in poorer areas), something which is moderated to a certain extent in other state systems through things like vouchers, open enrollment, or the simple accident of a more homogeneous distribution of wealth in the local area. ...
I agree. I support a voucher system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcsteiner
Atlanta seems to flout class differences a lot more than I'm used to seeing in the upper midwest. Maybe that's just my northern European heritage showing, but that plus the fact that you can see milloon dollar houses next to $50k brick ramblers here are still things which blow my mind a little. I expected to see such things in a third world country, but...
So wealthy people should not live near non wealthy?
I just get a little tired of that being brought up as the excuse for everything and anything. It's like a "get out of jail free" card in Monopoly.
My ancestors on my father's side were immigrants who came to the US at the end of the 19th century with nothing, and they made a life. They didn't have it easy and they faced discrimination. I don't blame my every failure on what was done to them 100 years ago. I don't look back at my own failures from 20 or 30 years ago. I look ahead. Some may flame me for saying it, but time to move on. Sitting around being bitter about the past serves no one.
I know slavery was a brutal and disgusting part of the history of the south, and earlier the entire country, but that was a long time ago, and now we have suffrage for everyone and not just male white land owners, so the ability to vote and change laws is different than what it was back then.
I may dislike what groups like "Occupy" stand for, and I may lament their often ignorant positions, but at least I give them credit for getting out and working for a position. Too many people just want to be apathetic.
Anyway...end of political rant.
Brother Neil--
It is way more complicated, and way less simplistic than what you're saying.
If you let people start hopping around to different schools under false pretenses aren't you undermining the concept of neighborhood schools? And all the hard work that a community does to bring excellence to its local school?
Arjay,
You left out the athletic angle. Football players in this area, and I am confident in the state, move like pro players being traded annually. It's amazing. You will see kids moved even during a season underway if the parent thinks it will benefit their kid. No joke. Team records depend on this fluid player force to tilt the odds a bit. Most of the player's parents are more than happy to oblige. The game is played by several parents renting an apartment and multiple players using that address. Technicallylegal....even if the kid rarely, if ever lays their head down....just a fact...
You also left out the second chance kids who are bused, at taxpayers expense, to another, more affluent area to give a troubled kid (read usually a misfit) another chance.
It is my understanding that the textbooks and curriculum are the same at all schools within the same system? And if that is true, isn't it just geography at that point? Or is it?
So, to bring attention to the 800 lb gorilla in the room/diatribe, it's the kids, not the teachers fault if the school is "underperforming". Believe me, the teachers at the better schools are just as non-committed as yours on the other side. The difference is the work ethic and family setting. Moving kids around who are more interested in what phone they have than learning are not going to do any better just because you move them from Clayton to Johns Creek. They are just going to travel a bit more.
Why not keep them where they are and keep a few less cars and buses on the road for extended periods of time, shall we? The taxpayers and probably the kids will be happier. Tough, but realistic truth. If anyone comes back with well, the environment is not indusive to learn then you only strengthen my point.
Let's talk more about parental and student credibility and less about the school in the nice neighborhood being the answer. After all, a kid can learn English in Clayton as well as in North Fulton with the same book and the same desire and commitment to learning?
might be nice to drop those free breakfast and lunches too. I figure if the kid can show up with the latest droid in their parents latest SUV they don't need my money to buy their lunch???
I believe people using other peoples addresses is wrong. However if you buy a house/condo(or rent a house/condo) and do not rent it out(or sublease it) and use it for sending your child to the schools I see nothing wrong. You are paying the cost to have access. Illegal aliens are in America using the schools; so why shouldn't tax paying citizens also play the games? I look at any government system as a game and those who play best win. Think about the people that make the decision of not getting married to keep welfare, they are just playing the game. Maybe it is wrong but they get away. I cheated a lot in HS never got caught. Was it wrong, I guess, but other people did it so I would be cheating myself by not cheating.
We need to crack down on illegal aliens before cracking down on citizens playing games.
THATS what im saying. Whats wrong with that?...if i buy a condo at Walton...pay the taxes....but not live there....i should still have every right to send my kids to walton.
THATS what im saying. Whats wrong with that?...if i buy a condo at Walton...pay the taxes....but not live there....i should still have every right to send my kids to walton.
Agreed, If I want to pay property taxes in 2 school districts that should be my business. I should be able to use whatever school my property tax funds. Making that illegal is government overreach. I am paying the cost for the choice not cheating.
I worked in a school district where someone did this- the district hired private investigators to watch the house (not too hard since the student wasn't actually living there) to document the lack of activity. The school principal also would check how the student arrived at school (driven by parent instead of using the school bus). Didn't take too long to have the data needed to show student lived outside of the district.
Also, parents contacting the school to let them know where the student actually lives is pretty common, especially if the illegal is taking up a space on a sports/cheerleading team.
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
11,334 posts, read 26,111,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onthemove2014
Man, it's a cold competive world out there just get your kids a half decent education. Snitching, investigating and everything.
I stand by my conviction that such things don't happen in a civilized state.
Then again, we're talking about Georgia, the state that considers two counties cooperating to be a communist revolution in the making...
I agree that owning a home in a district (and thus paying property taxes) should make it possible to send your kids to the schools that home is zoned for if you choose, but I find it a sad commentary on the situation here that someone would even have to contemplate that.
Vouchers ensure that all school will overtime move down to a low level. If I (thru my taxes) want to pay more to my school district to provide a higher level of education, that cost more then the state issued vouchers. That 'Extra' tax money they my local taxes pay would also subsidize the out of district, voucher students also. Me as a tax payer, would be telling the school board, (thru electing ones) who would not put any extra (local) $'s into the schools, I don't want to pay for out of district freeloaders. Overtime, my taxes would be lower, my local school system would become the same as all the other bad ones that the freeloader are trying to get away from. I could then use the saving in my taxes to send my child to a private school to get the level of education I want.
In response to the above, I agree with below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcsteiner
Move to Minnesota. That state has statewide open enrollment ... as long as there are slots open at the target school and you can provide transport, your kids can go there. And no, there hasn't been a lowering of school quality in the 20 or so years that the program has been in place (it first became mandatory for MN public schools in the 1990-91 school year, I think).
I am from Ohio and we have a voucher program called EdChoice and school quality has not gone down because of it. If anything, in my hometown many schools have improved. I have 6 nephews in Ohio and all of them use EdChoice vouchers and attend private schools. My youngest brother used a voucher for high school and graduated a few years ago. The school he went to has always been the best co-ed private school in the city, even when I was younger in the 80s and 90s. It still is. My oldest nephew goes to the best single gender private high school in the city and it has always been the best as well.
I personally don't understand GAs aversion to adopting a voucher system. I think it would really force a lot of schools to shap up. Right now my kids go to a Charter school but I will admit that if I had to, I would have rented a cheap room or efficiency in a better APS zone for my son and was planning on doing just that. I would have lived there half the week though at least. Luckily I didn't have to do that.
I am actually really considering moving back to OH due to the EdChoice program for my kids because I don't like the public high schools in the city and think it is ridiculous when only 2 or 3 of them are any good. I like to see a school system with many decent high schools. I also won't consider moving to a far flung suburb to where I wouldn't even get to see my kids after school due to a long commute because to me that is counterproductive to providing a decent home life for children. Even though I don't consider test scores to be all that much proof of how "good" a school is, I won't send my kids to a place that gets a 1 or 2 score on passing tests because to me that means they aren't teaching the kids much of anything.
Also wanted to comment that I do think it is rather strange that so many people try to get their kids into "elite" schools. Honestly I don't think "elite" high schools prepare kids all that much for college and for those kids are a bit above average, I think it is a disservice to them to force them to go to a school where they will not be at the top of the class. I would send my kid to a decent school and expect him/her to do their best. I also think about scholarship opportunities and at "elite" schools the top 10% scholarship is more difficult to get. I'd rather send my kid to a school ranked a 5-7 so that he/she will have a better shot at being in the top 10% academically and open to more scholarship opportunities.
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You left out the athletics
