Which commuter rail line is initially the most feasible? (Atlanta: subsidized, maintenance)

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by arjay57

How would Johnson and McKinney get elected if the people weren't engaged with local politics? The fact that they are a little left of center doesn't mean the voters who elected them are not savvy.

There is a big difference between simply voting and being active in politics to influence change. Sure, you can't really do B without A, but A doesn't equal B.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by MattCW

It's also highly doubtful the (passenger train) service itself will be profitable. The money to be made is in the real estate along the line dramatically increasing in value due to the service

...This...This is likely the most brilliant comment on this blog entry because this IS the way to pay for passenger rail service upgrades and expansion in the Greater Atlanta region.

The money to sustain a passenger rail transit line or service will not necessarily be made from fares, but will be made from the real estate along the passenger rail transit line.

Transit entities should ideally be real estate companies first and transit companies second.

Transit (bus & train service) is the most important service that a transit entity provides, but the money from the real estate transactions on the land that a transit entity owns along a line is the most important way that a high-capacity transit line can be made financially-sustainable.

This is a major key in helping make transit be able to pay for its own existence.

This is also a major key in making transit lines most attractive to the large amounts of private investment capital that will be needed to upgrade and expand transit access throughout the increasingly road-constrained Greater Atlanta region.

[SEAandATL]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

...This...This is likely the most brilliant comment on this blog entry because this IS the way to pay for passenger rail service upgrades and expansion in the Greater Atlanta region.

The money to sustain a passenger rail transit line or service will not necessarily be made from fares, but will be made from the real estate along the passenger rail transit line.

Transit entities should ideally be real estate companies first and transit companies second.

Transit (bus & train service) is the most important service that a transit entity provides, but the money from the real estate transactions on the land that a transit entity owns along a line is the most important way that a high-capacity transit line can be made financially-sustainable.

This is a major key in helping make transit be able to pay for its own existence.

This is also a major key in making transit lines most attractive to the large amounts of private investment capital that will be needed to upgrade and expand transit access throughout the increasingly road-constrained Greater Atlanta region.

That is a great point. I think a company that combines transit, real estate, and retail would be the best idea, one like Odakyu in the Tokyo area.

[MattCW]

And how would someone accomplish that? As I have stated several times already, and will continue to do so, the Florida East Coast Railway's situation is UNIQUE. They ALREADY hold massive amounts of land dating back to Henry Flagler's original holdings which were acquired dirt cheap. To do the same in the Atlanta area, would require buying lots of existing properties, at at least market value if not above, then developing them.

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

...This...This is likely the most brilliant comment on this blog entry because this IS the way to pay for passenger rail service upgrades and expansion in the Greater Atlanta region.

The money to sustain a passenger rail transit line or service will not necessarily be made from fares, but will be made from the real estate along the passenger rail transit line.

Transit entities should ideally be real estate companies first and transit companies second.

Transit (bus & train service) is the most important service that a transit entity provides, but the money from the real estate transactions on the land that a transit entity owns along a line is the most important way that a high-capacity transit line can be made financially-sustainable.

This is a major key in helping make transit be able to pay for its own existence.

This is also a major key in making transit lines most attractive to the large amounts of private investment capital that will be needed to upgrade and expand transit access throughout the increasingly road-constrained Greater Atlanta region.

So MARTA should be privatized?

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

So MARTA should be privatized?

Definitely.

People sometimes forget that until MARTA came along in the early 1970s, Atlanta had a very efficient and profitable private transit system, the Atlanta Transit Company. The Transit Company had a fleet of nearly 500 trackless trolleys plus 150 buses. Most of the routes that are covered by MARTA today were established decades ago by the Transit Company.

It operated with NO government support and NO sales tax money. It was dependent on fares alone and still turned a profit. The Transit Company served a city with a population at least as large as what we have today.

And for those who don't think Atlantans will ride the bus? In the 40s, 50s and 60s, private bus lines competed with one another to get routes because they were so popular and profitable.

[MattCW]

If it was so successful, then why did they discontinue the streetcars, and the trolley buses, and buses?

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by MattCW

If it was so successful, then why did they discontinue the streetcars, and the trolley buses, and buses?

MARTA came in and took over.

The streetcars had been gone since the 1940s.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by MattCW

And how would someone accomplish that? As I have stated several times already, and will continue to do so, the Florida East Coast Railway's situation is UNIQUE. They ALREADY hold massive amounts of land dating back to Henry Flagler's original holdings which were acquired dirt cheap. To do the same in the Atlanta area, would require buying lots of existing properties, at at least market value if not above, then developing them.

...One way to acquire properties along existing and current transit lines would be to start a real estate investment fund (a hedge fund and/or a REIT, etc) and purchase each targeted property along transit lines under different corporate and LLC names so that landowners don't catch on to what is going on and hike up land prices and property values along corridors where the transit entity is acquiring properties.

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

So MARTA should be privatized?

The transit entity that is currently known as MARTA should be largely, if not mostly or even virtually completely privatized.

Likely the only things that should be public about public transit are:

...The availability and use of public transit by the public;

...Public oversight of public transit by state government (as opposed to public transit being operated by state government);

...Public funding of public transit through fares and Tax Increment Financing (funding from portions of property tax revenues from new development that pops up along transit lines)...as opposed to public transit being overdependent on limited public funding sources from sales taxes and government subsidies;

...Overall public ownership of transit infrastructure (buses, trains, tracks, rail transit right-of-way, real estate along transit lines) that would be leased out (along with parallel major roads and all operating costs of transit and roads) to private entities (investors/operators) for profits that would be used to further expand and operate the upgraded transit network.

Privatizing the largest and most-important chunks of the multimodal transportation network (after switching to user fee-funding) is the way to provide the cash flow needed to maintain and expand the transportation network and keep it in good (if not excellent) working order.

[jsvh]

You forget that basically all public transit was profitably run by competing sets companies in all cities in the US up until the 1950s. However, once the government started dumping trillions of dollars into proving free highways they could not compete.

MARTA should be privatized. But only after roads are. MARTA cannot compete with the massive subsidizes that roads and drivers get.