Interesting Forecast for Kirkwood Residents and Toomer Elementary (Atlanta, Decatur: 2013, house)

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by Nast

I guess Kirkwood can put away all those We Support Coan yard signs now.

True this.

If they want Coan to succeed, a K-8 Toomer will not help (unless the K-8 model is a temporary solution to build neighborhood participation--with the ultimate goal of Toomer returning to a PreK-5 model and 6-8 returning back to Coan).


Or an even better solution? All elementary/middle schools in the Jackson Cluster becoming K-8...and all feeding into Jackson High for 9-12.

[jeoff]

Originally Posted by 10 feet tall

Great things going on at Toomer = more white kids. Gottcha - we know what you mean.

Look at it another way. Generally speaking, it does not speak well for a public school that more and more kids zoned for it have parents choosing to pay to go to a different school. Conversely, if more and more parents show enough confidence in school to move their kids there, that is a good thing.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by aries4118

True this.

If they want Coan to succeed, a K-8 Toomer will not help (unless the K-8 model is a temporary solution to build neighborhood participation--with the ultimate goal of Toomer returning to a PreK-5 model and 6-8 returning back to Coan).


Or an even better solution? All elementary/middle schools in the Jackson Cluster becoming K-8...and all feeding into Jackson High for 9-12.

The issue with parents is the lack of stability at Coan. Its had several principals is as many years. Kids at Toomer leave the school before 5th grade, as soon as they are accepted at Drew Charter. By having Toomer go to a K-8, it will stabilize the school and give parents of Kirkwood and East Lake a good path to Jackson. We all know middle school is toughest years for kids and by keeping them at the same school it will reduce drop-out rates and keep kids in the local public schools.

[lastminutemom]

Originally Posted by cqholt

The issue with parents is the lack of stability at Coan. Its had several principals is as many years. Kids at Toomer leave the school before 5th grade, as soon as they are accepted at Drew Charter. By having Toomer go to a K-8, it will stabilize the school and give parents of Kirkwood and East Lake a good path to Jackson. We all know middle school is toughest years for kids and by keeping them at the same school it will reduce drop-out rates and keep kids in the local public schools.

Why do you think that parents won't still be interested in Drew, especially now that it goes to 12th grade?

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by lastminutemom

Why do you think that parents won't still be interested in Drew, especially now that it goes to 12th grade?

I'm sure some parents will still be interested.

[CCATL]

Originally Posted by cqholt

I'm sure some parents will still be interested.

Drew and Toomer have a completely different way of accomplishing a common mission for their students (the common mission being having academically and personally successful students). Drew is a charter school, and focuses on cradle to college through a STEAM curriculum, integrating the sciences, math, and engineering with the arts. This is and will continue to be appealing to parents regardless of what Toomer does, and is supported by Drew's high test scores compared to the city. Toomer is and will continue to improve greatly, but they are still a traditional public school. I think both will remain viable, and parents will choose where to send their kids based on which curriculum and atmosphere appeals most to them.

[CCATL]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Kids at Toomer leave the school before 5th grade, as soon as they are accepted at Drew Charter. By having Toomer go to a K-8, it will stabilize the school and give parents of Kirkwood and East Lake a good path to Jackson. We all know middle school is toughest years for kids and by keeping them at the same school it will reduce drop-out rates and keep kids in the local public schools.

I don't think this is entirely true. I'm not sure that keeping students in the same building through middle school will make much of a difference in them choosing to stay or leave the traditional public school. Drew actually just separated their middle school from elementary, and put middle grades into the new high school. The transition from middle to high school is usually more difficult than from elementary to middle school, so I'm not sure keep a K-8 will make that much of a difference. If anything, students may now choose to move to a charter school for high school, especially if Jackson doesn't make some strides (although it looks like its moving towards that). Either way, Toomer will be successful, but I don't think it will have to do with them becoming K-8.

[lastminutemom]

Originally Posted by CCATL

Drew and Toomer have a completely different way of accomplishing a common mission for their students (the common mission being having academically and personally successful students). Drew is a charter school, and focuses on cradle to college through a STEAM curriculum, integrating the sciences, math, and engineering with the arts. This is and will continue to be appealing to parents regardless of what Toomer does, and is supported by Drew's high test scores compared to the city. Toomer is and will continue to improve greatly, but they are still a traditional public school. I think both will remain viable, and parents will choose where to send their kids based on which curriculum and atmosphere appeals most to them.

I am guessing that the make up of the student population plays a big part in parents' decisions. And I am not talking race, but class and parental education level. Should be interesting (at least to me, an ed policy person) to watch.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by CCATL

I don't think this is entirely true. I'm not sure that keeping students in the same building through middle school will make much of a difference in them choosing to stay or leave the traditional public school. Drew actually just separated their middle school from elementary, and put middle grades into the new high school. The transition from middle to high school is usually more difficult than from elementary to middle school, so I'm not sure keep a K-8 will make that much of a difference. If anything, students may now choose to move to a charter school for high school, especially if Jackson doesn't make some strides (although it looks like its moving towards that). Either way, Toomer will be successful, but I don't think it will have to do with them becoming K-8.

There is research to prove it.

[CCATL]

Originally Posted by cqholt

There is research to prove it.

What does that research say, I haven't seen it? Educational research looks a lot at teacher and student self-efficacy, environmental factors, curriculum design (Problem Based Learning, Project Based Learning, Lecture based, cross-discipline), etc. etc. I think a lot of what research is showing is that school environment is what has a greater affect on the transition into or out of middle grades, not necessarily showing that elementary/middle or middle/high is a better approach. For example, if you go from a colorful, creative elementary school classroom to a bland, lecture based middle school classroom, it is going to be hard on the student, regardless of if they are in the same building or not.

I also work in educational research, but school transition isn't a focus of mine - haven't done much with it. If you have research (aka peer reviewed articles, not newspaper) that compare elementary/middle schools vs middle/high schools, and don't take into account things like self-efficacy and classroom environment being a main contributor to student retention and success, I'd be interested in seeing it. Maybe lastminutemom has more experience with her area in educational policy.